New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
Have we dropped the notion of mirroring the website?
www.postgresql.org now takes me right to the main page, not to a list of
mirrors.
It does look nice though ;-)
regards, tom lane
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)Have we dropped the notion of mirroring the website?
www.postgresql.org now takes me right to the main page, not to a list of
mirrors.
the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance
UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to
go to ...
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance
UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to
go to ...
Ah. But if I do either, I see
Warning: pg_exec(): supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL link resource in
/usr/local/www/www.postgresql.org/mirrors.php on line 28
and
Couldn't query the mirrors table!
Might just be a transient problem till DNS updates ... or not ...
regards, tom lane
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance
UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to
go to ...Ah. But if I do either, I see
Warning: pg_exec(): supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL link resource in
/usr/local/www/www.postgresql.org/mirrors.php on line 28and
Couldn't query the mirrors table!
Might just be a transient problem till DNS updates ... or not ...
'K, let's hope ... I tried it here and the flags all came up :(
Dave/Justin?
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance
UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to
go to ...Ah. But if I do either, I see
Warning: pg_exec(): supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL link resource in
/usr/local/www/www.postgresql.org/mirrors.php on line 28and
Couldn't query the mirrors table!
Might just be a transient problem till DNS updates ... or not ...
'K, let's hope ... I tried it here and the flags all came up :(
Dave/Justin?
Ok, am online and DNS seems to be propagated out this way.
Will take a look now.
BTW - Should we do the redirects that the old postgresql.org used to do:
i.e.:
www.postgresql.org/doc -> www.ca.postgresql.org/users-lounge/
and similar.
:-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Justin Clift wrote:
www.postgresql.org/doc -> www.ca.postgresql.org/users-lounge/
If we can avoid it, let's ... if I recall correctly, we originally set
that up in order to get around some issues we had with originally moving
over to the new site way way back ...
Hi Tom,
Sorry about that. Was a combo of two simple problems.
It's fixed now. :-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Tom Lane wrote:
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
the portal itself is not mirrored, butif you go to, for instance
UsersLounge or Downloads, it then gives you the option of which mirror to
go to ...Ah. But if I do either, I see
Warning: pg_exec(): supplied argument is not a valid PostgreSQL link resource in
/usr/local/www/www.postgresql.org/mirrors.php on line 28and
Couldn't query the mirrors table!
Might just be a transient problem till DNS updates ... or not ...
regards, tom lane
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"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi
Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> writes:
It's fixed now. :-)
Better, thanks.
Minor suggestion: could we get ALT text for all the flags? Right now
it's there for USA, UK, Italy, but not the rest ...
regards, tom lane
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
Looks pretty good here.
However, the bugs link on the main page is currently broken (404: Page not
found) http://www.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php link from the main page.
Peter
--
Peter Mount
peter@retep.org.uk
http://www.retep.org.uk/
Tel/Fax: +44 (0) 1622 749439
Mobile: +44 (0) 7903 155887
US Fax: 1 435 304 5165
US Voice: 1 435 304 5165
Peter Mount wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)Looks pretty good here.
However, the bugs link on the main page is currently broken (404: Page not
found) http://www.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php link from the main page.
Ouch, sorry about that.
It's fixed now too.
:-)
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Peter
--
"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Speaking of DNS, we should probably not put all of our eggs
in one basket (subnet):
$ whois postgresql.org
...
Domain servers in listed order:NS.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.5
NS2.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.6
It would be nice if one or more nameservers were added that
were not in the same subnet, especially because we have so
many mirrors (subdomains) that are scattered all over the globe.
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301051008
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.html
iD8DBQE+GE5lvJuQZxSWSsgRAteAAJ9YQF/eOpS+bZl84HOT84HAiaRQtQCfawbI
VpEZSB8oXoO3ycza4g6h5Hg=
=19gB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Mount [mailto:peter@retep.org.uk]
Sent: 05 January 2003 12:28
To: Marc G. Fournier
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl
testing this
out and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is
going to take
a little while to propogate, so the old site may still come
up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
Looks pretty good here.
However, the bugs link on the main page is currently broken
(404: Page not
found) http://www.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php link from the
main page.
Ack, knew we probably missed something...
Leave it with me.
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Clift [mailto:justin@postgresql.org]
Sent: 05 January 2003 13:22
To: Peter Mount
Cc: Marc G. Fournier; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...Peter Mount wrote:
However, the bugs link on the main page is currently broken
(404: Page
not
found) http://www.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php link fromthe main page.
Ouch, sorry about that.
It's fixed now too.
Ahh you've done it - save me a job :-)
/D
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
We're actually working on adding a new server online that is offshore,
which will also give us another subnet to work off of ... but having a
third-party secondary server wouldn't hurt, you are right ...
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 greg@turnstep.com wrote:
Show quoted text
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1Speaking of DNS, we should probably not put all of our eggs
in one basket (subnet):$ whois postgresql.org
...
Domain servers in listed order:NS.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.5
NS2.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.6It would be nice if one or more nameservers were added that
were not in the same subnet, especially because we have so
many mirrors (subdomains) that are scattered all over the globe.Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301051008-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.htmliD8DBQE+GE5lvJuQZxSWSsgRAteAAJ9YQF/eOpS+bZl84HOT84HAiaRQtQCfawbI
VpEZSB8oXoO3ycza4g6h5Hg=
=19gB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE--------------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
--On Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:52:11 -0400 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
Sure, I have 2 NS's on my network with good upstream connectivity (UUNET,
SPRINT,
GENUITY, C&W, SAVVIS).
(207.158.72.11/207.158.72.45).
Let me know what the primary is, and what domain(s) you want.
the NS records listed in the root are:
NS-A.lerctr.org [207.158.72.11]
NS-B.lerctr.org [207.158.72.45]
We're actually working on adding a new server online that is offshore,
which will also give us another subnet to work off of ... but having a
third-party secondary server wouldn't hurt, you are right ...
Be more than happy to supply it.
LER
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 greg@turnstep.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1Speaking of DNS, we should probably not put all of our eggs
in one basket (subnet):$ whois postgresql.org
...
Domain servers in listed order:NS.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.5
NS2.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.6It would be nice if one or more nameservers were added that
were not in the same subnet, especially because we have so
many mirrors (subdomains) that are scattered all over the globe.Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301051008-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.htmliD8DBQE+GE5lvJuQZxSWSsgRAteAAJ9YQF/eOpS+bZl84HOT84HAiaRQtQCfawbI
VpEZSB8oXoO3ycza4g6h5Hg=
=19gB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE--------------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
--
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Larry Rosenman wrote:
--On Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:52:11 -0400 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
Sure, I have 2 NS's on my network with good upstream connectivity (UUNET,
SPRINT,
GENUITY, C&W, SAVVIS).(207.158.72.11/207.158.72.45).
Let me know what the primary is, and what domain(s) you want.
the NS records listed in the root are:
NS-A.lerctr.org [207.158.72.11]
NS-B.lerctr.org [207.158.72.45]
right now, primary is 64.49.215.9, and the only domain I can see requiring
is the *.postgresql.org one, which should just about cover everything, and
is the only one maintained by 215.9 ...
Should I use both of the above, or which would you prefer?
--On Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:59:42 -0400 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Larry Rosenman wrote:
--On Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:52:11 -0400 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
Sure, I have 2 NS's on my network with good upstream connectivity (UUNET,
SPRINT,
GENUITY, C&W, SAVVIS).(207.158.72.11/207.158.72.45).
Let me know what the primary is, and what domain(s) you want.
the NS records listed in the root are:
NS-A.lerctr.org [207.158.72.11]
NS-B.lerctr.org [207.158.72.45]right now, primary is 64.49.215.9, and the only domain I can see requiring
is the *.postgresql.org one, which should just about cover everything, and
is the only one maintained by 215.9 ...Should I use both of the above, or which would you prefer?
Put them both in. I have a tendency to not have both down at the same
time.
Looks like you need to allow me AXFR.
I've added it to both, but I'm getting no AXFR permission.
LER
--
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749
Looks like your firewall needs to allow TCP/53 connections from me as well.
I'm getting RST's.
(BTW, TCP/53 can be used for large queries, so it should be allowed
globally).
LER
--On Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:59:42 -0400 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Larry Rosenman wrote:
--On Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:52:11 -0400 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
Sure, I have 2 NS's on my network with good upstream connectivity (UUNET,
SPRINT,
GENUITY, C&W, SAVVIS).(207.158.72.11/207.158.72.45).
Let me know what the primary is, and what domain(s) you want.
the NS records listed in the root are:
NS-A.lerctr.org [207.158.72.11]
NS-B.lerctr.org [207.158.72.45]right now, primary is 64.49.215.9, and the only domain I can see requiring
is the *.postgresql.org one, which should just about cover everything, and
is the only one maintained by 215.9 ...Should I use both of the above, or which would you prefer?
--
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749
Hi Marc,
Just tested it! it seemes that the address for the french flag is wrong:
http://www.fr.postgresql.org/www.postgresql.org instead of just
www.fr.postgresql.org.
Regards,
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 01:51:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
Newsgroups: comp.databases.postgresql.hackers
Subject: Re: New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Justin Clift wrote:
www.postgresql.org/doc -> www.ca.postgresql.org/users-lounge/
If we can avoid it, let's ... if I recall correctly, we originally set
that up in order to get around some issues we had with originally moving
over to the new site way way back ...---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
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Olivier PRENANT Tel: +33-5-61-50-97-00 (Work)
Quartier d'Harraud Turrou +33-5-61-50-97-01 (Fax)
31190 AUTERIVE +33-6-07-63-80-64 (GSM)
FRANCE Email: ohp@pyrenet.fr
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make your life a dream, make your dream a reality. (St Exupery)
AFAICT none of the www mirrors have updated yet; that's starting to
seem suspicious.
regards, tom lane
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
AFAICT none of the www mirrors have updated yet; that's starting to
seem suspicious.
the www mirrors don't update from the portal,they update from what is now
the users-lounge area ... the portal itself isn't meant to be mirrors, as
its pretty much completely database driven ...
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
AFAICT none of the www mirrors have updated yet; that's starting to
seem suspicious.
the www mirrors don't update from the portal,they update from what is now
the users-lounge area ...
But they aren't. Try going to the users-lounge area via the new portal.
Show me even one mirror that isn't displaying the old home page.
regards, tom lane
Two thoughts:
Are there any plans to 'strip' the users lounge of duplicated
information? (outdated news, various links, etc.).
Will advocacy, gborg, archives, techdocs, etc. be updated to include
links back to the portal site?
BTW, the 'Users Lounge' search link is broken.
http://www.postgresql.org/search.cgi no longer exists.
On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 19:40, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
--
Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
PGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]
Sent: 05 January 2003 20:34
To: Marc G. Fournier
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ..."Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
AFAICT none of the www mirrors have updated yet; that's
starting to
seem suspicious.
the www mirrors don't update from the portal,they update
from what is
now the users-lounge area ...
But they aren't. Try going to the users-lounge area via the
new portal. Show me even one mirror that isn't displaying the
old home page.
I see what you mean Tom. Marc, how can I get to the old server? I don't
have a note of the IP address. We need to redirect from the current
index.html to /user-lounge/index.html
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Taylor [mailto:rbt@rbt.ca]
Sent: 05 January 2003 20:42
To: Marc G. Fournier
Cc: PostgreSQL-development
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...Two thoughts:
Are there any plans to 'strip' the users lounge of duplicated
information? (outdated news, various links, etc.).
Yes, as part of a redesign.
Will advocacy, gborg, archives, techdocs, etc. be updated to
include links back to the portal site?
Don't they already?
BTW, the 'Users Lounge' search link is broken.
http://www.postgresql.org/search.cgi no longer exists.
Umm, Marc? Is that a mnogo search.cgi? What do you want to do about it -
move it or lose it?
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
Will advocacy, gborg, archives, techdocs, etc. be updated to
include links back to the portal site?Don't they already?
If they do, it's not obvious. I don't see anything on archives,
advocacy, or gborg. It looks like techdocs goes to the users lounge
(PostgreSQL Home).
--
Rod Taylor <rbt@rbt.ca>
PGP Key: http://www.rbt.ca/rbtpub.asc
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Rod Taylor wrote:
Two thoughts:
Are there any plans to 'strip' the users lounge of duplicated
information? (outdated news, various links, etc.).
Yes ...
Will advocacy, gborg, archives, techdocs, etc. be updated to include
links back to the portal site?
Yes ...
BTW, the 'Users Lounge' search link is broken.
http://www.postgresql.org/search.cgi no longer exists.
Guys?
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]
Sent: 05 January 2003 20:34
To: Marc G. Fournier
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ..."Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
AFAICT none of the www mirrors have updated yet; that's
starting to
seem suspicious.
the www mirrors don't update from the portal,they update
from what is
now the users-lounge area ...
But they aren't. Try going to the users-lounge area via the
new portal. Show me even one mirror that isn't displaying the
old home page.I see what you mean Tom. Marc, how can I get to the old server? I don't
have a note of the IP address. We need to redirect from the current
index.html to /user-lounge/index.html
'K, but that won't help the mirrors themselves ... what we need to do is
pull the users-lounge over to the new VM next ...
Do you have access to 64.49.215.8?
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote:
Umm, Marc? Is that a mnogo search.cgi? What do you want to do about it -
move it or lose it?
Move it, but its going to require some fixing up ... let's disable it for
now and re-enable it once we've had some time to get it back in order?
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
AFAICT none of the www mirrors have updated yet; that's starting to
seem suspicious.the www mirrors don't update from the portal,they update from what is now
the users-lounge area ...But they aren't. Try going to the users-lounge area via the new portal.
Show me even one mirror that isn't displaying the old home page.
next phase ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:scrappy@hub.org]
Sent: 05 January 2003 21:03
To: Dave Page
Cc: Tom Lane; webmaster@postgresql.org; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [webmaster] [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS
switched ...On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote:
'K, but that won't help the mirrors themselves ... what we
need to do is pull the users-lounge over to the new VM next ...Do you have access to 64.49.215.8?
Ugghh, what a mess. OK, I don't have root there, or ownership of the
files so I can't do anything. For now, we need to redirect
www.ca.postgresql.org/index.html to
www.ca.postgresql.org/user-lounge/index.html - if we use a meta refresh
tag then the mirrors shouldn't break.
The new version on the new VM should be completely new in my opinion,
but we should discuss that on the relevant list.
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
-----Original Message-----
From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:scrappy@hub.org]
Sent: 05 January 2003 21:06
To: Dave Page
Cc: Rod Taylor; PostgreSQL-development
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote:
Umm, Marc? Is that a mnogo search.cgi? What do you want to
do about it
- move it or lose it?
Move it, but its going to require some fixing up ... let's
disable it for now and re-enable it once we've had some time
to get it back in order?
OK. It would help if I had root on www.ca.postgresql.org...
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 19:40, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems
Why are there ads on the page?
Cheers,
Neil
--
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Conway [mailto:neilc@samurai.com]
Sent: 05 January 2003 22:03
To: Marc G. Fournier
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...On Sat, 2003-01-04 at 19:40, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl
testing this
out and let us know if there are any problems
Why are there ads on the page?
There were always ads there - they help pay for the boxes.
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
(furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial mirror page,
whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).
they help pay for the boxes.
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to users on
our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much every other
non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their main website.
Displaying ads makes us look more like a Geocities site than a
legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.
In fact, there are several groups that provide free hosting for OSS
projects, without requiring them to display ads on their webpages (e.g.
SourceForge, Savannah, etc.)
Cheers,
Neil
--
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC
On 5 Jan 2003, Neil Conway wrote:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
(furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial mirror page,
whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).
Good point.
Marc, would it be possible to get a look at the figures involved: cost of
hosting and income generated from ads. With these, we might be able to
think up some alternative funding arrangements which make the site(s) look
more professional whilst still covering the cost to the same extent.
Thanks,
Gavin
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Neil Conway wrote:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
Not sure where you heard this from ... there were some site that still
hadn't had them deployed on them, but there was never any intention of
phasing them out ...
-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Conway [mailto:neilc@samurai.com]
Sent: 05 January 2003 22:38
To: Dave Page
Cc: Marc G. Fournier; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased
out (furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial
mirror page, whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).they help pay for the boxes.
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to
users on our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much
every other non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their
main website. Displaying ads makes us look more like a
Geocities site than a legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.
Don't get me wrong, I personnally would prefer to remove them, however
unless we get suitable corporate sponsorship the servers still have to
be paid for somehow. Purely speculation, but I would guess that the ads
are not recouping all of the cash it costs hub.org to host the sites as
it is.
In fact, there are several groups that provide free hosting
for OSS projects, without requiring them to display ads on
their webpages (e.g. SourceForge, Savannah, etc.)
You're surely not suggesting that the various postgresql.org servers and
everything they do could be moved onto free space supplied by
Sourceforge or similar? I don't think they'd want to host Gborg for us
:-)
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 18:05, Dave Page wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I personnally would prefer to remove them, however
unless we get suitable corporate sponsorship the servers still have to
be paid for somehow.
Granted. I'm just trying to point out that putting ads on our webspace
is a pretty serious problem. If that's the *only* way to keep
postgresql.org, then so be it -- but perhaps there's another way to get
the necessary funds, as Gavin suggested (for example, a more efficient
mirroring scheme, using zlib compression for the main web server, etc.)
You're surely not suggesting that the various postgresql.org servers and
everything they do could be moved onto free space supplied by
Sourceforge or similar?
No; I'm just pointing out that (a) putting ads on their websites is the
exception, rather than the rule, among reputable OSS projects (b) even
OSS projects that don't pay anything for their webspace don't need to
use banner ads.
Cheers,
Neil
--
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I personnally would prefer to remove them, however
unless we get suitable corporate sponsorship the servers still have to
be paid for somehow. Purely speculation, but I would guess that the ads
are not recouping all of the cash it costs hub.org to host the sites as
it is.
Not even close ... in fact, most of the banners there are in recognition
of those companies who themselves have provided invaluable resources for
the project by providing mirror sites, to reduce the overall traffic hits
on the central server ...
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> writes:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 18:05, Dave Page wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I personnally would prefer to remove them, however
unless we get suitable corporate sponsorship the servers still have to
be paid for somehow.
Granted. I'm just trying to point out that putting ads on our webspace
is a pretty serious problem. If that's the *only* way to keep
postgresql.org, then so be it -- but perhaps there's another way to get
the necessary funds, as Gavin suggested
I'm with Neil and Gavin on this: let's think about whether there's
another way to finance the website. Perhaps there isn't, but let's
at least take a hard look at it.
Marc has put a *lot* of his own money into supporting the Postgres
servers over the years. Maybe it's time for the rest of us to step up.
regards, tom lane
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Tom Lane wrote:
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> writes:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 18:05, Dave Page wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I personnally would prefer to remove them, however
unless we get suitable corporate sponsorship the servers still have to
be paid for somehow.Granted. I'm just trying to point out that putting ads on our webspace
is a pretty serious problem. If that's the *only* way to keep
postgresql.org, then so be it -- but perhaps there's another way to get
the necessary funds, as Gavin suggestedI'm with Neil and Gavin on this: let's think about whether there's
another way to finance the website. Perhaps there isn't, but let's
at least take a hard look at it.Marc has put a *lot* of his own money into supporting the Postgres
servers over the years. Maybe it's time for the rest of us to step up.
Please understand something here ... a large portion of the banner ads are
*not* paid ... they are recognition of the many mirror sites that are
supporting the project by reducing the amount of bandwidth that is
required on the central server ...
We've only had a couple of ppl actually decide to subscribe to the banner
ad service itself, so it hasn't be a major revenue stream ... ;)
Neil Conway wrote:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
(furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial mirror page,
whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).they help pay for the boxes.
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to users on
our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much every other
non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their main website.
Displaying ads makes us look more like a Geocities site than a
legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.
Ouch, Geocities. That hurts.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Neil Conway wrote:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
(furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial mirror page,
whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).they help pay for the boxes.
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to users on
our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much every other
non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their main website.
Displaying ads makes us look more like a Geocities site than a
legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.Ouch, Geocities. That hurts.
And if you go visit a Geocities site, its not even a close analogy ...
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Neil Conway wrote:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
(furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial mirror page,
whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).they help pay for the boxes.
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to users on
our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much every other
non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their main website.
Displaying ads makes us look more like a Geocities site than a
legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.Ouch, Geocities. That hurts.
And if you go visit a Geocities site, its not even a close analogy ...
I know ... It was just funny. I forgot the smiley. :-)
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On 5 Jan 2003, Neil Conway wrote:
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to users on
our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much every other
non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their main website.
Displaying ads makes us look more like a Geocities site than a
legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.
I have no problem with the ads. I disagree with the viewpoints above.
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
Please understand something here ... a large portion of the banner ads are
*not* paid ... they are recognition of the many mirror sites that are
supporting the project by reducing the amount of bandwidth that is
required on the central server ...
While the mirror sites deserve some recognition, I'm not convinced that
that should translate to banner ads on the main portal.
Could we set things up so that when you actually go to a mirror site,
you see some discreet notice about "this mirror sponsored by so-and-so"?
And I'm definitely not happy with reading
Help Support This Site
Post your Ad Here
Pay Only for Visitors
As Low As
$0.10cdn per click-thru
Hub.Org
on the main site. That's several shades too mercenary for my taste.
regards, tom lane
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 20:32, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Not even close ... in fact, most of the banners there are in recognition
of those companies who themselves have provided invaluable resources for
the project by providing mirror sites, to reduce the overall traffic hits
on the central server ...
That's fair enough. However, many other OSS projects use a mirror
system, but AFAIK not one of them compensates mirror operators through
banner ads.
For example, consider the Debian project. Mirroring the Debian archive
requires FAR more disk and bandwidth than mirroring postgresql.org, but
yet (a) they have plenty of mirrors (b) they don't have any banner ads
on their website.
My guess is that most mirror operators won't mind not getting to run
banner ads on postgresql.org -- I'd think the reason they're hosting a
mirror in the first-place is to contribute back to the project...
Cheers,
Neil
--
Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
<snip>
'K, but that won't help the mirrors themselves ... what we need to do is
pull the users-lounge over to the new VM next ...Do you have access to 64.49.215.8?
.9 works for me, but .8 doesn't.
:-(
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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"My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those
who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the
first group; there was less competition there."
- Indira Gandhi
I'll do it on my site.
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Show quoted text
Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
We're actually working on adding a new server online that is offshore,
which will also give us another subnet to work off of ... but having a
third-party secondary server wouldn't hurt, you are right ...On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 greg@turnstep.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1Speaking of DNS, we should probably not put all of our eggs
in one basket (subnet):$ whois postgresql.org
...
Domain servers in listed order:NS.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.5
NS2.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.6It would be nice if one or more nameservers were added that
were not in the same subnet, especially because we have so
many mirrors (subdomains) that are scattered all over the globe.Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301051008-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.htmliD8DBQE+GE5lvJuQZxSWSsgRAteAAJ9YQF/eOpS+bZl84HOT84HAiaRQtQCfawbI
VpEZSB8oXoO3ycza4g6h5Hg=
=19gB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE--------------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
The site looks fantastic! Great work!
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Show quoted text
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Any volunteers to act as a tertiary? :)
We're actually working on adding a new server online that is offshore,
which will also give us another subnet to work off of ... but having a
third-party secondary server wouldn't hurt, you are right ...
OK, add 64.46.156.80 as a slave to your master, and NSC.INSPECTHOUSE.COM
will provide DNS services.
Show quoted text
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 greg@turnstep.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1Speaking of DNS, we should probably not put all of our eggs
in one basket (subnet):$ whois postgresql.org
...
Domain servers in listed order:NS.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.5
NS2.HUB.ORG 64.49.215.6It would be nice if one or more nameservers were added that
were not in the same subnet, especially because we have so
many mirrors (subdomains) that are scattered all over the globe.Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301051008-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: http://www.turnstep.com/pgp.htmliD8DBQE+GE5lvJuQZxSWSsgRAteAAJ9YQF/eOpS+bZl84HOT84HAiaRQtQCfawbI
VpEZSB8oXoO3ycza4g6h5Hg=
=19gB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE--------------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
Neil Conway wrote:
On Sun, 2003-01-05 at 17:15, Dave Page wrote:
There were always ads there
Yes -- but AFAIK there were in the process of being phased out
(furthermore, the old site only had ads on the initial mirror page,
whereas they are much more widespread on the new site).they help pay for the boxes.
Obviously, but it's VERY unprofessional for us to show ads to users on
our website. It goes without saying, but pretty much every other
non-trivial OSS project doesn't have ads on their main website.
Displaying ads makes us look more like a Geocities site than a
legitimate competitor to Oracle/DB2/etc.In fact, there are several groups that provide free hosting for OSS
projects, without requiring them to display ads on their webpages (e.g.
SourceForge, Savannah, etc.)Cheers,
Neil
The PHP site shows adds.
Show quoted text
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, mlw wrote:
The PHP site shows adds.
And I just checked ... so does Sourceforge ...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
The PHP site shows adds.
And I just checked ... so does Sourceforge ...
Sourceforge is not a good example: they are not a organization of open
source people, but a a site owned by a company (OSDN, Inc.) which
in turn is owned by another company (VA Software Corporation).
I think it is better to compare to sites that are closer in spirit
and mission to us. None of these have banner ads:
www.apache.org
www.perl.org
www.sendmail.org (despite the commercial ties)
www.gnupg.org
www.opensource.org
www.gimp.org
www.gnome.org
If the banner ads (as previously stated) do not bring in much revenue,
is there a reason to keep them?
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200301061347
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Marc G. Fournier writes:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/ doesn't exist anymore.
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
On 6 Jan 2003 at 18:44, greg@turnstep.com wrote:
If the banner ads (as previously stated) do not bring in much revenue,
is there a reason to keep them?
This has been mentioned more than once AFAIK. It is in "payment" to
those who have provided mirror services.
--
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Marc G. Fournier writes:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/ doesn't exist anymore.
Sounds like someone was messin with httpd.conf.
Vince.
--
Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/
http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com
Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio.
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Marc G. Fournier writes:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/ doesn't exist anymore.
Sounds like someone was messin with httpd.conf.
nope, www.postgresql.org is no longer on mars, where the development stuff
is located ... I have a way to fix that, just need to find a moment to do
so :(
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)
My hope was that this would be all the information in a single,
integrated site. What I see now is one (nice) front page with links to
all the other sites, which don't even have links back, much less the
same look and feel. Are you intending to switch those eventually?
(Please say yes.)
Thanks,
Scott
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Scott Lamb wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)My hope was that this would be all the information in a single,
integrated site. What I see now is one (nice) front page with links to
all the other sites, which don't even have links back, much less the
same look and feel. Are you intending to switch those eventually?
(Please say yes.)
Yes, the first phase was to get the front-end fixed ... one of Vince's
major complaints concerning the old one was that it was near impossible to
make changes to it (ie. add menu links) ...
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Marc G. Fournier writes:
I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out
and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a
little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the
interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :)http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/ doesn't exist anymore.
Sounds like someone was messin with httpd.conf.
nope, www.postgresql.org is no longer on mars, where the development stuff
is located ... I have a way to fix that, just need to find a moment to do
so :(
Doesn't matter where it is if the redirect points to the right place.
IIRC Peter's webspace was a redirect.
Vince.
--
Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/
http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com
Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio.
On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 13:26, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, mlw wrote:
The PHP site shows adds.
Ok -- but the vast majority (say, 95%) of OSS sites don't show ads.
And I just checked ... so does Sourceforge ...
Not on project websites, though.
In any case, I'd be fine with showing ads if there was a demonstrated
need for them (and no reasonable alternatives could be found). However,
that doesn't seem to be the case: the argument that ads are a necessary
compensation for mirrors is not convincing IMHO, given the huge number
of other OSS projects that use mirrors, and the relatively tiny number
that show ads as a result. If there's a better reason why we need to
show ads, what is it?
Cheers,
Neil
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Neil Conway wrote:
On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 13:26, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, mlw wrote:
The PHP site shows adds.
Ok -- but the vast majority (say, 95%) of OSS sites don't show ads.
Guess that makes us part of the elite 5% that do, eh? You had me worried
for awhile there that we were totally exclusive in this *wipe brow*
I know I participate on this group periodically, but my last position
was CTO at a company, and I currently run my own consulting company. I
feel I have a pretty neutral perspective.
I don't see what the fuss is all about. Banner adds are good, if the
PostgreSQL can get some good RELEVANT adds on its site, (a) shows
viability, and (b) that there is some sort of revenue. Oracle and
Microsoft "rape" their customers, of course they have no 3rd party
banner adds, but make no mistake, there are adds for other products by
the respective companies.
I think that, if you guys want banner adds, it is not a sin, nor is it
unprofessional. My only suggestion is to make sure they are relevant to
the database market. Adds that are relevant to your core competency
enhance your message. Of course, if you post sweepstakes adds, then you
blow it.
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Show quoted text
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Neil Conway wrote:
On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 13:26, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, mlw wrote:
The PHP site shows adds.
Ok -- but the vast majority (say, 95%) of OSS sites don't show ads.
Guess that makes us part of the elite 5% that do, eh? You had me worried
for awhile there that we were totally exclusive in this *wipe brow*
Tom Lane wrote:
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
Please understand something here ... a large portion of the banner ads are
*not* paid ... they are recognition of the many mirror sites that are
supporting the project by reducing the amount of bandwidth that is
required on the central server ...While the mirror sites deserve some recognition, I'm not convinced that
that should translate to banner ads on the main portal.Could we set things up so that when you actually go to a mirror site,
you see some discreet notice about "this mirror sponsored by so-and-so"?And I'm definitely not happy with reading
Help Support This Site
Post your Ad Here
Pay Only for Visitors
As Low As
$0.10cdn per click-thru
Hub.Orgon the main site. That's several shades too mercenary for my taste.
I think banner ads that build on PostgreSQL's message is a good thing. A
RedHat ad, maybe IBM, etc. Companies with a related purpose to the
PostgreSQL mission will offset some of the cost and help build the
cedibility of the site.
Hotel ads and sweepstakes are a bad idea, though.
Show quoted text
On 7 Jan 2003 at 16:25, mlw wrote:
I think banner ads that build on PostgreSQL's message is a good thing.
A RedHat ad, maybe IBM, etc. Companies with a related purpose to the
PostgreSQL mission will offset some of the cost and help build the
cedibility of the site.Hotel ads and sweepstakes are a bad idea, though.
I think that those who are objecting to ads on the site should follow
the suggestion given by Josh Berkus at
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2003-01/msg00191.php
In other words, stop providing suggestions as to what can be done.
Get off your own ass and do it. In short, put up or shut up.
--
Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Dan Langille wrote:
On 7 Jan 2003 at 16:25, mlw wrote:
I think banner ads that build on PostgreSQL's message is a good thing.
A RedHat ad, maybe IBM, etc. Companies with a related purpose to the
PostgreSQL mission will offset some of the cost and help build the
cedibility of the site.Hotel ads and sweepstakes are a bad idea, though.
I think that those who are objecting to ads on the site should follow
the suggestion given by Josh Berkus at
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2003-01/msg00191.phpIn other words, stop providing suggestions as to what can be done.
Get off your own ass and do it. In short, put up or shut up.
If I wanted to support the whole hosting operating myself with no help
from hub.org, how many gigabytes of data transfer per month would I be
looking at for (1) the main site and (2) a mirror?
Jon