MS SQL features for new version

Most of the new features are new database tools, etc. That has always
been a strong point with SQL server. IMO, the weak point of the
database (aside from the vendor and the price), is a lack flexibility of
the client APIs and the stored procedure syntax.

The interesting features are the xml querying, recursive querying, and
'multiple active results sets'. I think MS is laying down a more
relational foundation which would allow for such features. They have
been working on this product for years and years...it will be fun to see
how it turns out.

Merlin

Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI,

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Also, kick-arse Oracle analytic features:

http://www.akadia.com/services/ora_analytic_functions.html

Chris

Yes MS tools for MS SQL have always been there strong point. Easy to get
started and get things going quickly. I on the other hand have never ran
into a lack of flexibility with the client APIs or the stored procedure
syntax.

In all cases I have encountered we have turned away from MS SQL because the
scalability and high availability options have been weak to non existent.

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Merlin Moncure
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 7:19 AM
To: shridhar@frodo.hserus.net
Cc: PostgreSQL-development
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version

Most of the new features are new database tools, etc. That has always been
a strong point with SQL server. IMO, the weak point of the database (aside
from the vendor and the price), is a lack flexibility of the client APIs and
the stored procedure syntax.

The interesting features are the xml querying, recursive querying, and
'multiple active results sets'. I think MS is laying down a more relational
foundation which would allow for such features. They have been working on
this product for years and years...it will be fun to see how it turns out.

Merlin

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Shridhar Daithankar wrote:

Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI,

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Shridhar

From the page:

A new Snapshot Isolation (SI) level will be provided at the
database level. With SI, users will be able to access the
last committed row using a transitionally consistent view
of the database. This capability will provide greater
scalability for very large database (VLDB) implementations.

Is Snapshot Isolation == MVCC ?

Shridhar Daithankar wrote:

Hi all,

Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI,

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Regards,
Andreas

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.

I was trying to decide how much better this was than

BEGIN;
DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
COMMIT;

Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote:

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.

I was trying to decide how much better this was than

BEGIN;
DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
COMMIT;

Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates,
delete, inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index
recreation.

Their text indicates that all activity on the table will not be blocked
during the creation of a new index on that table. To me, that makes it a
slick trick.

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:40, Rod Taylor wrote:

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote:

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.

I was trying to decide how much better this was than

BEGIN;
DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
COMMIT;

Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates,
delete, inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index
recreation.

Their text indicates that all activity on the table will not be blocked
during the creation of a new index on that table. To me, that makes it a
slick trick.

Sorry, I should have written that the other way around-ish...
assume table foo has an index bat on column bar.

BEGIN;
CREATE INDEX baz on foo (bar);
DROP INDEX bat;
COMMIT;

during index creation other folks can select from the table all they
want without being blocked, and upon commit they will switch to the new
index. I've always thought that was a nifty trick, but it's true that
still blocks updates/inserts/deletes, so the m$ feature does sound kinda
slick. :-)

Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

Can't they just let the old index continue to work while generating the new
index and then after the new index is created switch? I know the details are
more complex but what would be the factor(s) preventing this?

Keith

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Rod Taylor
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:41 PM
To: Robert Treat
Cc: Andreas Pflug; shridhar@frodo.hserus.net; PostgreSQL Development
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] MS SQL features for new version

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote:

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild
indexes on the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.

I was trying to decide how much better this was than

BEGIN;
DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
COMMIT;

Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates, delete,
inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index recreation.

Their text indicates that all activity on the table will not be blocked
during the creation of a new index on that table. To me, that makes it a
slick trick.

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Rod Taylor wrote:

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 15:37, Robert Treat wrote:

On Tue, 2004-02-10 at 13:20, Rod Taylor wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Notice the Snapshot Isolation. Sounds like MVCC for MSSQL?

Actually, the one I noticed was the ability to add or rebuild indexes on
the fly. That is a pretty slick trick.

I was trying to decide how much better this was than

BEGIN;
DROP INDEX foo ON bar;
CREATE INDEX foo ON bar;
COMMIT;

Well.. If thats a big table, you've just blocked selects, updates,
delete, inserts, etc. against that table for the duration of the index
recreation.

Just a thought:
Creating an index might be performed as a two step mechanism.
First populate the index, using read-only table data and thus creating a
preliminary index for a snapshot, maybe performing several rounds.

Next, do the rest, now with locking, to get up-to-date.

This way, the index creation impact on ins/upd/del would be minimized.

Regards,
Andreas

On Tue, 10 Feb 2004, Rodrigo wrote:

Shridhar Daithankar wrote:

Just stumbled upon this. just an FYI,

http://www.microsoft.com/sql/yukon/productinfo/top30features.asp

Shridhar

From the page:

A new Snapshot Isolation (SI) level will be provided at the
database level. With SI, users will be able to access the
last committed row using a transitionally consistent view
of the database. This capability will provide greater
scalability for very large database (VLDB) implementations.

Is Snapshot Isolation == MVCC ?

I think it goes that MVCC is a kind of snap shot, but snap shotting could
be provided by more ways than just MVCC.

But I'm not 100% certain on that.