Beta5 now Available

On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
changed the mk script to pull in the beta3 man pages that I found
in the dev/doc directory ...

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778

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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:

On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
changed the mk script to pull in the beta3 man pages that I found
in the dev/doc directory ...

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Sweet, thanks, will include that in the announce later today ... I take it
that the 'recursive directory' patch you had mentioned didn't help though?
:(

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 12:49:25PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:

On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
changed the mk script to pull in the beta3 man pages that I found
in the dev/doc directory ...

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Sweet, thanks, will include that in the announce later today ... I
take it that the 'recursive directory' patch you had mentioned
didn't help though? :(

It would only help with maintenance, not with memory or CPU. Also, a
non-standard patch would mean forking away from the standard distro :P

Anyhow, the trimmed-down version doesn't appear to be affecting system
load much.

Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778

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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:

On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 12:49:25PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:

On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
changed the mk script to pull in the beta3 man pages that I found
in the dev/doc directory ...

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Sweet, thanks, will include that in the announce later today ... I
take it that the 'recursive directory' patch you had mentioned
didn't help though? :(

It would only help with maintenance, not with memory or CPU. Also, a
non-standard patch would mean forking away from the standard distro :P

Anyhow, the trimmed-down version doesn't appear to be affecting system
load much.

Nope, definitely better then a loadavg of 54 :) She's running <1 right
now ...

What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or something
like that? Would moving away from the Python version help any? Something
to look into? jdk1.4.2 is available on that VM right now, not sure what
else, if anything, would need to be installed though ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or
something like that?

http://azureus.sourceforge.net/

Regards,
Thomas Hallgren

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or something
like that?

http://azureus.sourceforge.net/

There is a FreeBSD port of it also but it says "A BitTorrent client
written in Java" ... does it work as server too, or, by its nature, are
servers == clients in Bittorrent? :)

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

There is a FreeBSD port of it also but it says "A BitTorrent client
written in Java" ... does it work as server too, or, by its nature, are
servers == clients in Bittorrent? :)

Yes. While you're downloading, others might pick bits and pieces from
the segmetns that you've obtained so far and once you're finished, you
may "seed" a file, i.e. make it available for others to download.

Regards,
Thomas Hallgren

The problem is it requires a box with X on it. (ie it's not console
Java, it's gui java) I don't have a server to run it on right now, but
will be readdressing server allocations shortly and may be able to set
something up with x/vnc and would be happy to use that as a primary bt
seeding site.

Gavin

Thomas Hallgren wrote:

It's all peer to peer client type stuff with the exception of the
tracker server.

Gavin

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Am Montag, 22. November 2004 17:40 schrieb David Fetter:

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Out of curiosity, what purpose does a bittorrent source serve in this case?
The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster than
the client can take. The traffic on the download servers is not reduced,
only distributed differently. I don't see any advantage.

--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 05:33:15PM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

Am Montag, 22. November 2004 17:40 schrieb David Fetter:

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Out of curiosity, what purpose does a bittorrent source serve in
this case?

BitTorrent was designed to take bandwidth load off servers that would
otherwise need to be on very large and expensive pipes. It does this
by serving mostly information about where other servers are, rather
than serving the same (much larger) chunks of data over and over again
to clients.

You can find more information on what BitTorrent does and how it does
it at

http://bittorrent.com/introduction.html

HTH :)

Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

Am Montag, 22. November 2004 17:40 schrieb David Fetter:

A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)

Out of curiosity, what purpose does a bittorrent source serve in this case?

I've always just seen it as an alternative option for downloading *shrug*
just like ftp:// or http:// ...

The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster than
the client can take. The traffic on the download servers is not reduced,
only distributed differently. I don't see any advantage.

Actually, and here is where I exhibit my total lack of knowledge of BT
internals ... my understanding was that each 'client' becomes a 'server'
by the fact that they have it on their machine and running ... so, over
time, the amount of load on the central server would decrease, since new
downloads would come from closer "client machines" ... essentially, a
whole new set of "unofficial mirror sites" for the source code ...

Is this a wrong understanding?

This is David's baby though, not mind :) I don't know much about it, and
based on what little I've read about it (and original discussions),
believe its a more open source 'kazaa/napster', and, as such, works
similar ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster
than
the client can take. The traffic on the download servers is not reduced,
only distributed differently. I don't see any advantage.

Actually, and here is where I exhibit my total lack of knowledge of BT
internals ... my understanding was that each 'client' becomes a 'server'
by the fact that they have it on their machine and running ... so, over
time, the amount of load on the central server would decrease, since new
downloads would come from closer "client machines" ... essentially, a
whole new set of "unofficial mirror sites" for the source code ...

This is essentially true, although it makes a lot more sense for things
that are a lot larger (full ISO's like Linux distributions) and have a
higher desirability than "official" avenues to get to them. That's not
to say that it shouldn't be offered, it's just a niche thing & is
generally time-sensitive (i.e., it does the best when there a lot of
people using it & the time most people use it is when something is "hot
off the presses"). PostgreSQL is sufficiently small and has high enough
availibility that either you won't have to think twice about downloading
through standard avenues or BT won't help you.

--
Jeff Hoffmann
jeff@propertykey.com

* Marc G. Fournier (scrappy@postgresql.org) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster than
the client can take. The traffic on the download servers is not reduced,
only distributed differently. I don't see any advantage.

Actually, and here is where I exhibit my total lack of knowledge of BT
internals ... my understanding was that each 'client' becomes a 'server'
by the fact that they have it on their machine and running ... so, over
time, the amount of load on the central server would decrease, since new
downloads would come from closer "client machines" ... essentially, a
whole new set of "unofficial mirror sites" for the source code ...

Is this a wrong understanding?

Nope, that's about right, from what I understand. Not only that, but
for far-flung people (from the server) it's possible that there are
links between the server and the client that are too slow, bt could
reduce the bandwidth demands on those links too if other people on the
far side are also grabbing the stream.

Stephen

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 11:06:40AM -0600, Jeff Hoffmann wrote:

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client
faster than the client can take. The traffic on the download
servers is not reduced, only distributed differently. I don't see
any advantage.

Actually, and here is where I exhibit my total lack of knowledge of
BT internals ... my understanding was that each 'client' becomes a
'server' by the fact that they have it on their machine and running
... so, over time, the amount of load on the central server would
decrease, since new downloads would come from closer "client
machines" ... essentially, a whole new set of "unofficial mirror
sites" for the source code ...

That's not to say that it shouldn't be offered, it's just a niche
thing & is generally time-sensitive (i.e., it does the best when
there a lot of people using it & the time most people use it is when
something is "hot off the presses").

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The above is precisely the use case I set the thing up for. :)

Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!

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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
| On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
|
|> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
|>
|>> What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or
|>> something like that?
|>>
|> http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
|
|
| There is a FreeBSD port of it also but it says "A BitTorrent client
| written in Java" ... does it work as server too, or, by its nature, are
| servers == clients in Bittorrent? :)

Bittorrent is based on a tracker, the tracker is embedded in the metafile
(.torrent file ) and also is based on the "first client" that is launched
pointing to the complete file; so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.

What do you have against the python implementation ?

Regards
Gaetano Mendola

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Gaetano Mendola wrote:

...so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.

I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders to be
able to find each other but no client is more important than the others.

Regards,
Thomas Hallgren

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:

Gaetano Mendola wrote:

...so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.

I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders to be able
to find each other but no client is more important than the others.

can there be multiple trackers? for instance, if we ran bt.postgresql.org
on two different servers, could they both run trackers at the same time?

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 08:43:56PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:

Gaetano Mendola wrote:

...so the very first client is the real server that must be run
24/24.

I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders
to be able to find each other but no client is more important than
the others.

can there be multiple trackers? for instance, if we ran
bt.postgresql.org on two different servers, could they both run
trackers at the same time?

I suspect the best thing would be to run the tracker on one server
(bt) and seeders elsewhere.

Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter david@fetter.org http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 510 893 6100 mobile: +1 415 235 3778

Remember to vote!