pg_upgrade: convert on read is dead end

Zdenek Kotala wrote:

PostgreSQL stores all table's external data in one TOAST table and
stored data does not contains any clue about datatype. When postgreSQL
reads TOSTEed value then there is not possible detect what type it is
and perform varlena conversion on composite datatypes or arrays.

It could be converted in detoast_datum function but it means that datum
have to be retoasted and store back on new pages. The old page MUST keep
in old format because any page conversion lost information about version
and different datatypes can be store on one page PosgreSQL.

Hmm. There's two things here:
1. The format of the toast page, and the toast chunk tuples.
2. The format of the toasted tuple, stored within the chunk tuples.

The format of the toast page and the varlena headers of the byteas in
the toast tuples could be converted when the page is read in, as usual.
The format of the toasted tuple within the chunks is indeed trickier.
Retoasting all tuples on the "master" heap page when the page is read in
is probably simplest, as you say. But they don't necessarily need to be
stored on new pages, any toast pages will do, because we keep track of
1. separately.

By my opinion, this issue completely kill convert on read solution and
only "read all formats..." solution is right one.

It is quite heavy-weight, I agree, but doesn't "completely kill" the
idea in my opinion.

Besides, the "read all formats" approach wouldn't really avoid it
either. If you passed a toasted datum to a function, when the function
needs to detoast it, detoast_datum still wouldn't know whether the datum
is in old or new format. You'd still need to detoast all values in the
tuple somewhere before they could be passed around.

--
Heikki Linnakangas
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

Heikki Linnakangas napsal(a):

Zdenek Kotala wrote:

PostgreSQL stores all table's external data in one TOAST table and
stored data does not contains any clue about datatype. When postgreSQL
reads TOSTEed value then there is not possible detect what type it is
and perform varlena conversion on composite datatypes or arrays.

It could be converted in detoast_datum function but it means that
datum have to be retoasted and store back on new pages. The old page
MUST keep in old format because any page conversion lost information
about version and different datatypes can be store on one page PosgreSQL.

Hmm. There's two things here:
1. The format of the toast page, and the toast chunk tuples.
2. The format of the toasted tuple, stored within the chunk tuples.

The format of the toast page and the varlena headers of the byteas in
the toast tuples could be converted when the page is read in, as usual.

Convert page and chunk varlena header is not problem. It works. You can get into
trouble when new max chunk size is smaller, but it is not current case.

The format of the toasted tuple within the chunks is indeed trickier.
Retoasting all tuples on the "master" heap page when the page is read in
is probably simplest, as you say. But they don't necessarily need to be
stored on new pages, any toast pages will do, because we keep track of
1. separately.

You can store it on any page in the new format with enough free space, but in
reality it will be mostly new page. You cannot convert old page, because it
could contain chunk from different tuple. You could check it and converted it
only if all chunk are related to one datum, but in general you need to have
mechanism how solve problem with multi datum chunks.

By my opinion, this issue completely kill convert on read solution and
only "read all formats..." solution is right one.

It is quite heavy-weight, I agree, but doesn't "completely kill" the
idea in my opinion.

Besides, the "read all formats" approach wouldn't really avoid it
either. If you passed a toasted datum to a function, when the function
needs to detoast it, detoast_datum still wouldn't know whether the datum
is in old or new format. You'd still need to detoast all values in the
tuple somewhere before they could be passed around.

If you look into pg_upgrade prototype patch I added page version information
into HeapTupleData structure. It keeps information about format. All chunked
data are stored on a pages with same page versions. I think these two things are
enough to have all necessary information.

Zdenek

--
Zdenek Kotala Sun Microsystems
Prague, Czech Republic http://sun.com/postgresql

Zdenek Kotala wrote:

Heikki Linnakangas napsal(a):

Besides, the "read all formats" approach wouldn't really avoid it
either. If you passed a toasted datum to a function, when the function
needs to detoast it, detoast_datum still wouldn't know whether the
datum is in old or new format. You'd still need to detoast all values
in the tuple somewhere before they could be passed around.

If you look into pg_upgrade prototype patch I added page version
information into HeapTupleData structure. It keeps information about
format. All chunked data are stored on a pages with same page versions.
I think these two things are enough to have all necessary information.

Functions are passed just a Datum, not HeapTupleData.

--
Heikki Linnakangas
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com

Heikki Linnakangas napsal(a):

Zdenek Kotala wrote:

Heikki Linnakangas napsal(a):

Besides, the "read all formats" approach wouldn't really avoid it
either. If you passed a toasted datum to a function, when the
function needs to detoast it, detoast_datum still wouldn't know
whether the datum is in old or new format. You'd still need to
detoast all values in the tuple somewhere before they could be passed
around.

If you look into pg_upgrade prototype patch I added page version
information into HeapTupleData structure. It keeps information about
format. All chunked data are stored on a pages with same page
versions. I think these two things are enough to have all necessary
information.

Functions are passed just a Datum, not HeapTupleData.

But executor works with HeapTupleData structure and it should convert it to the
new format before it passes it to function. My idea is to convert tuple in
ExecTupleStore or invent new node special for tuple conversion.

I expect that function cannot get toast pointer. It can get only detoasted
attributes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Zdenek

--
Zdenek Kotala Sun Microsystems
Prague, Czech Republic http://sun.com/postgresql

Zdenek Kotala wrote:

I expect that function cannot get toast pointer. It can get only
detoasted attributes. Correct me if I'm wrong.

A function is passed a raw datum, which can be toasted. Now, practically
all functions call one of the PG_GETARG_* macros that detoast the datum
before doing anything else, but there is also PG_GETARG_RAW_VARLENA_P
macro that returns the toast pointer. Although, grepping through the
source code suggests that it's not actually used anywhere.

--
Heikki Linnakangas
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com