PGCluster-II Progress

I had the same question a while a go.
After a lot of googling I found http://www.cybertec.at/english/start_e.html
This seems to be an active replacement for the dead? pg-cluster

HTH

Regards,

Serge Fonville

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda <mlortiz@uci.cu

Yeah, the problem here is that CyberCluster is based yet on PostgreSQL 8.1 and is a very old version to use it.

I found the developer of PgCluster-II: Atsushi MITANI - mitani@sraw.co.jp

"The hurry is enemy of the success: for that reason.......Be patient"

Ing. Marcos L. Ortiz Valmaseda
Línea Soporte y Despliegue
Centro de Tecnologías de Almacenamiento y Análisis de Datos (CENTALAD)

Linux User # 418229
PostgreSQL User
http://www.postgresql.org
http://www.planetpostgresql.org/
http://www.postgresql-es.org/

----- Mensaje original -----
De: "Serge Fonville" <serge.fonville@gmail.com>
Para: "Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda" <mlortiz@uci.cu>
CC: "pgsql-hackers" <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Enviados: Martes, 15 de Septiembre 2009 1:32:37 GMT -10:00 Hawai
Asunto: Re: [HACKERS] PGCluster-II Progress

I had the same question a while a go.
After a lot of googling I found http://www.cybertec.at/english/start_e.html
This seems to be an active replacement for the dead? pg-cluster

HTH

Regards,

Serge Fonville

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda < mlortiz@uci.cu > wrote:

I was searching info about PgCluster-II yesterday and there is not much information about it.
Do can give to me any report of this? Because I need to know the progress of the project.
On PgFoundry, only it talks about PgCluster-1.9, but not of the 2.x versions.

Who is the PgCluster-II´s developer?

Regards

"The hurry is enemy of the success: for that reason.......Be patient"

Ing. Marcos L. Ortiz Valmaseda
Línea Soporte y Despliegue
Centro de Tecnologías de Almacenamiento y Análisis de Datos (CENTALAD)

Linux User # 418229
PostgreSQL User
http://www.postgresql.org
http://www.planetpostgresql.org/
http://www.postgresql-es.org/

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On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda <mlortiz@uci.cu

wrote:

Yeah, the problem here is that CyberCluster is based yet on PostgreSQL 8.1
and is a very old version to use it.

I found the developer of PgCluster-II: Atsushi MITANI - mitani@sraw.co.jp

Yeah, AFAICS, PGCluster II is and has been dead for years.

I did an architectural review of PGCluster II while at EnterpriseDB, and
it's never going to work from a performance perspective. Unfortunately, the
architecture (as it stands) requires coordination of pretty much all locks
and semaphores, and will only run on a single system because it requires a
nearly-identical shared memory segment for each instance. Unlike Oracle
RAC, which was designed to be run on separate nodes and share/coordinate
only relevant resources, PGCluster II coordinates almost everything
(transaction ids, buffer locks, etc.).

As an example, Oracle doesn't need to communicate with every node in the
cluster to generate a new transaction id (SCN in Oracle parlance) because it
employs a system based on Lamport timestamps, but PGCluster II has to
coordinate a global transaction id across all nodes.

Also, PGCluster II has no concept of shared data/local WAL. Whereas Oracle
supports threads of REDO/UNDO generated by the local node, all WAL in
PGCluster II has to be coordinated between nodes, which creates a bottleneck
on *all* concurrent workloads.

When I first saw the demonstration of PGCluster II, I was in awe.
Unfortunately, when I reviewed the architecture, I saw that it was too good
to be true. Perhaps it has been rearchitected in private to overcome some
of these issues, but I'm not aware of it. All attempts to talk to Atsushi
about it were met with no response.

--
Jonah H. Harris, Senior DBA
myYearbook.com

On Tue, 2009-09-15 at 07:29 -0400, Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda wrote:

I was searching info about PgCluster-II yesterday and there is not
much information about it.
Do can give to me any report of this? Because I need to know the
progress of the project.

It is dead.
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org

Odd, I talked to him a couple of weeks ago and he was working on a new
release in preparation for some upcoming talks he was doing ... was
working on bringing it up to support 8.3.x ...

"But, I'm just prepareing new version of the PGCluster..."

Mitani ... any status on this?

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009, Devrim G?ND?Z wrote:

On Tue, 2009-09-15 at 07:29 -0400, Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda wrote:

I was searching info about PgCluster-II yesterday and there is not
much information about it.
Do can give to me any report of this? Because I need to know the
progress of the project.

It is dead.
--
Devrim G?ND?Z, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A.
scrappy@hub.org http://www.hub.org

Yahoo:yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ:7615664 MSN:scrappy@hub.org

On Tue, 2009-09-15 at 13:16 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Odd, I talked to him a couple of weeks ago and he was working on a
new
release in preparation for some upcoming talks he was doing ... was
working on bringing it up to support 8.3.x ...

"But, I'm just prepareing new version of the PGCluster..."

Mitani was probably talking about PGCluster, not PGCluster -II. Mitani?

Last time I heard about PGCluster-II was at Anniversary Summit(2006).
Oh, and I met with him at France at 2007, and no improvements since
then.

Regards,
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org

Hi,

2009/9/16 Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>:

Odd, I talked to him a couple of weeks ago and he was working on a new
release in preparation for some upcoming talks he was doing ... was working
on bringing it up to support 8.3.x ...

Yes. He will make a presentation about PGCluster at PGCon 2009 Japan.
http://www.postgresql.jp/events/pgcon09j/e/program_2#10

Regards,

--
Fujii Masao
NIPPON TELEGRAPH AND TELEPHONE CORPORATION
NTT Open Source Software Center

I'm sorry for late my response.
I already sent same contents to Marcos, but I did not cc to all of yours.
(I'll join pgsql-hackers ML).

1. Statement of PGCluster-II
The state of PGCluster-II is re designing.
I developed and demonstorated PGCluster-II as full data shared model in 2006.
It worked fine.
However, perfomance point of view, it was not good at all.
Then, I improved it in 2007. Even so, it was absurdly slow.

I think that it was required redesigning to improve performanse.
The full data shread model is not difficult to build up (I developed the 1st PGCluster-II within 2 weeks),
but it is not easy to improve performanse.
Then, I chose partial data shared model as my conclusion.
I spend two years to decide it.

2. Prospects of PGCluster-II
Currentry, I'm developing the cluster server management tools as a part of the latest PGCluster.
It will be upcoming release.
After that, I will be back to the PGCluster-II project.

On comming Nov. 19, The International PostgreSQL Cluster Developper's Meeting (I'm not sure the proper name) will be held in Tokyo.
I'll discuss about a task of PGCluster-II as a part of PostgreSQL's cluster project at the meeting.
Clustering is getting more important each day.
I'm expecting that PGCluster & PGCluster-II play a role in the solution.

Best regards,
-------------------
At.Mitani

-- original message --
From: Devrim G？ND？Z<devrim@gunduz.org>
To: Marc G. Fournier<scrappy@hub.org>
Cc: Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda<mlortiz@uci.cu>;
mitani<mitani@sraw.co.jp>;pgsql-hackers<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Sent: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:20:37 +0300
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] PGCluster-II Progress

Excellent news,Mitani. My personal intention if to help you with this work for the redesign of PGCluster-II, or on the coding of it.

If we work like a team, we can release this new version of the project more quickly.
Do you have any sources repository of this new version? I work fine with CVS and Subversion but if you are working with Git, is better, because is my favorite SCM.

Regards, and I'll be waiting your answer.

"The hurry is enemy of the success: for that reason.......Be patient"

Ing. Marcos L. Ortiz Valmaseda
Línea Soporte y Despliegue
Centro de Tecnologías de Almacenamiento y Análisis de Datos (CENTALAD)

Linux User # 418229
PostgreSQL User
http://www.postgresql.org
http://www.planetpostgresql.org/
http://www.postgresql-es.org/

----- Mensaje original -----
De: mitani@sraw.co.jp
Para: devrim@gunduz.org, "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org>
CC: "pgsql-hackers" <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Enviados: Jueves, 17 de Septiembre 2009 15:13:43 GMT -10:00 Hawai
Asunto: Re: [HACKERS] PGCluster-II Progress

I'm sorry for late my response.
I already sent same contents to Marcos, but I did not cc to all of yours.
(I'll join pgsql-hackers ML).

1. Statement of PGCluster-II
The state of PGCluster-II is re designing.
I developed and demonstorated PGCluster-II as full data shared model in 2006.
It worked fine.
However, perfomance point of view, it was not good at all.
Then, I improved it in 2007. Even so, it was absurdly slow.

I think that it was required redesigning to improve performanse.
The full data shread model is not difficult to build up (I developed the 1st PGCluster-II within 2 weeks),
but it is not easy to improve performanse.
Then, I chose partial data shared model as my conclusion.
I spend two years to decide it.

2. Prospects of PGCluster-II
Currentry, I'm developing the cluster server management tools as a part of the latest PGCluster.
It will be upcoming release.
After that, I will be back to the PGCluster-II project.

On comming Nov. 19, The International PostgreSQL Cluster Developper's Meeting (I'm not sure the proper name) will be held in Tokyo.
I'll discuss about a task of PGCluster-II as a part of PostgreSQL's cluster project at the meeting.
Clustering is getting more important each day.
I'm expecting that PGCluster & PGCluster-II play a role in the solution.

Best regards,
-------------------
At.Mitani

-- original message --
From: Devrim G？ND？Z<devrim@gunduz.org>
To: Marc G. Fournier<scrappy@hub.org>
Cc: Marcos Luis Ortiz Valmaseda<mlortiz@uci.cu>;
mitani<mitani@sraw.co.jp>;pgsql-hackers<pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Sent: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:20:37 +0300
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] PGCluster-II Progress

On Tue, 2009-09-15 at 13:16 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Odd, I talked to him a couple of weeks ago and he was working on a
new
release in preparation for some upcoming talks he was doing ... was
working on bringing it up to support 8.3.x ...

"But, I'm just prepareing new version of the PGCluster..."

Mitani was probably talking about PGCluster, not PGCluster -II. Mitani?

Last time I heard about PGCluster-II was at Anniversary Summit(2006).
Oh, and I met with him at France at 2007, and no improvements since
then.

Regards,
--
Devrim G？ND？Z, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org

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Mitani-San,

thank you for this heads up on PGCluster-II. The partial data idea
sounds very interesting and I'm looking forward to an inspiring meeting
in Tokyo.

Kind Regards

Markus Wanner