6.6 items

Started by Bruce Momjianover 26 years ago35 messages
#1Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us

I have updated the TODO list, rearranging it. Here is the top of the
"Enhancements" list:

* Add referential integrity
* Add OUTER joins, left and right(Thomas)
* Allow long tuples by chaining or auto-storing outside db (chaining,large objs)
* Fix memory leak for expressions?, aggregates?

And the top of "Performance" is:

* Allow transaction commits with rollback with no-fsync performance
* Prevent fsync in SELECT-only queries

This should help. Did I get all the big items just discussed?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

TODO list for PostgreSQL
========================
Last updated: Sun Jun 6 22:08:59 EDT 1999

Current maintainer: Bruce Momjian (maillist@candle.pha.pa.us)

The most recent version of this document can be viewed at
the PostgreSQL WWW site, http://www.postgreSQL.org.

A dash(-) marks changes to be in the next release.

Developers who have claimed items are:
-------------------------------------
* Billy is Billy G. Allie <Bill.Allie@mug.org>
* Brook is Brook Milligan <brook@trillium.NMSU.Edu>
* Bruce is Bruce Momjian<maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
* Bryan is Bryan Henderson<bryanh@giraffe.netgate.net>
* D'Arcy is D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@druid.net>
* David is David Hartwig <daveh@insightdist.com>
* Edmund is Edmund Mergl <E.Mergl@bawue.de>
* Goran is Goran Thyni <goran@kyla.kiruna.se>
* Hiroshi is Hiroshi Inoue<Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
* Jan is Jan Wieck <wieck@sapserv.debis.de>
* Marc is Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org>
* Massimo Dal Zotto <dz@cs.unitn.it>
* Michael is Michael Meskes <meskes@debian.org>
* Oleg is Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
* Peter is Peter T Mount <peter@retep.org.uk>
* Stefan Simkovics <ssimkovi@rainbow.studorg.tuwien.ac.at>
* Tatsuo is Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
* Tom is Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
* Thomas is Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>
* TomH is Tom I Helbekkmo <tih@Hamartun.Priv.NO>

* Vadim is "Vadim B. Mikheev" <vadim@krs.ru>

RELIABILITY
-----------
* Overhaul mdmgr/smgr to fix double unlinking and double opens, cleanup
* Overhaul bufmgr/lockmgr/transaction manager
* Remove EXTEND?
* Tables that start with xinv confused to be large objects
* Two and three dimensional arrays display improperly, missing {}
* Select a[1] FROM test fails, it needs test.a[1]
* Update table SET table.value = 3 fails
* User who can create databases can modify pg_database table
* Elog() does not free all its memory(Jan)
* Disallow inherited columns with the same name as new columns
* Recover or force failure when disk space is exhausted
* Views containing aggregates sometimes fail(Jan)
* Alter TABLE ADD COLUMN does not honor DEFAULT, add CONSTRAINT
* Array index references without table name cause problems
* Views with spaces in view name fail when referenced
* Plpgsql does not handle quoted mixed-case identifiers
* Do not allow bpchar column creation without length
* INSERT INTO ... SELECT with AS columns matching result columns problem

ENHANCEMENTS
------------
* Add referential integrity
* Add OUTER joins, left and right(Thomas)
* Allow long tuples by chaining or auto-storing outside db (chaining,large objs)
* Fix memory leak for expressions?, aggregates?

Exotic features:
* Add sql3 recursive unions
* Add the concept of dataspaces
* Add replication of distributed databases
* Allow queries across multiple databases

Admin:
* Better interface for adding to pg_group
* More access control over who can create tables and access the database
* Add syslog functionality
* Allow elog() to return error codes, not just messages
* Allow international error message support and add error codes
* Generate postmaster pid file and remove flock/fcntl lock code
* Add ability to specifiy location of lock/socket files

Types:
* Add BIT, BIT VARYING
* Nchar (as distinguished from ordinary varchar),
* Domain capability
* Add STDDEV/VARIANCE() function for standard deviation computation/variance
* Allow compression of large fields or a compressed field type
* Large objects
* Fix large object mapping scheme, own typeid or reltype(Peter)
* Allow large text type to use large objects(Peter)
* Not to stuff everything as files in a single directory
* Allow pg_descriptions when creating types, tables, columns, and functions
* Add IPv6 capability to INET/CIDR types
* Make a separate SERIAL type?
* Store binary-compatible type information in the system
* Allow user to define char1 column
* Add support for & operator

Views:
* Allow DISTINCT on views
* Allow views of aggregate columns
* Allow views with subselects

* Allow subqueries in target list
* Put sort files, large objects in their on directory
* Do autocommit so always in a transaction block
* Show location of syntax error in query
* Redesign the function call interface to handle NULLs better(Jan)
* Document/trigger/rule so changes to pg_shadow create pg_pwd
* Missing optimizer selectivities for date, etc.

Indexes:
* Allow CREATE INDEX zman_index ON test (date_trunc( 'day', zman ) datetime_ops)
fails index can't store constant parameters
* Allow creation of functional indexes to use default types
* Permissions on indexes - prevent them?
* Allow SQL function indexes
* Add FILLFACTOR to index creation

Commands:
* ALTER TABLE ADD COLUMN to inherited table put column in wrong place
* Add ALTER TABLE DROP/ALTER COLUMN feature
* Allow CLUSTER on all tables at once, and improve CLUSTER
* Generate error on CREATE OPERATOR of ~~, ~ and and ~*
* Add SIMILAR TO to allow character classes, 'pg_[a-c]%'
* Auto-destroy sequence on DROP of table with SERIAL
* Allow LOCK TABLE tab1, tab2, tab3 so all tables locked in unison
* Allow INSERT/UPDATE of system-generated oid value for a row
* Allow ESCAPE '\' at the end of LIKE for ANSI compliance
* Rewrite the LIKE handling by rewriting the user string with the
supplied ESCAPE
* Move LIKE index optimization handling to the optimizer

Clients:
* Make NULL's come out at the beginning or end depending on the
ORDER BY direction
* Allow flag to control COPY input/output of NULLs
* Update reltuples from COPY command
* Allow psql \copy to allow delimiters
* Add a function to return the last inserted oid, for use in psql scripts
* Allow psql to print nulls as distinct from ""(?)

* Increase identifier length(NAMEDATALEN) if small performance hit
* Allow row re-use without vacuum, maybe?(Vadim)
* Add UNIQUE capability to non-btree indexes
* Certain indexes will not shrink, i.e. oid indexes with many inserts
* Restore unused oid's on backend exit if no one else has gotten oids
* Have UPDATE/DELETE clean out indexes
* Allow WHERE restriction on ctid
* Allow cursors to be DECLAREd/OPENed/CLOSEed outside transactions
* Allow PQrequestCancel() to terminate when in waiting-for-lock state
* Transaction log, so re-do log can be on a separate disk
* Populate backend status area and write program to dump status data
* Make oid use unsigned int more reliably, pg_atoi()

* Add PL/Perl(Mark Hollomon)

PERFORMANCE
-----------
* Allow transaction commits with rollback with no-fsync performance
* Prevent fsync in SELECT-only queries

* Use indexes in ORDER BY for restrictive data sets, min(), max()
* Pull requested data directly from indexes, bypassing heap data
* Use index to restrict rows returned by multi-key index when used with
non-consecutive keys or OR clauses, so fewer heap accesses
* Use index with constants on functions

* Allow LIMIT ability on single-table queries that have no ORDER BY to use
a matching index
* Improve LIMIT processing by using index to limit rows processed

* Cache most recent query plan(s?)
* Shared catalog cache, reduce lseek()'s by caching table size in shared area

* Allow compression of log and meta data
* Update pg_statistic table to remove operator column
* Make index creation use psort code, because it is now faster(Vadim)
* Allow char() not to use variable-sized header to reduce disk size
* Do async I/O to do better read-ahead of data
* Fix memory exhaustion when using many OR's
* Get faster regex() code from Henry Spencer <henry@zoo.utoronto.ca>
when it is available
* Use mmap() rather than SYSV shared memory(?)
* Process const = const parts of OR clause in separate pass
* Make oid use oidin/oidout not int4in/int4out in pg_type.h
* Create more system table indexes for faster cache lookups
* Improve Subplan list handling
* Allow Subplans to use efficient joins(hash, merge) with upper variable

DOCUMENTATION
-------------
* Add use of 'const' for varibles in source tree

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#2Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: Bruce Momjian (#1)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Bruce Momjian wrote:

I have updated the TODO list, rearranging it. Here is the top of the
"Enhancements" list:

* Add referential integrity
* Add OUTER joins, left and right(Thomas)
* Allow long tuples by chaining or auto-storing outside db (chaining,large objs)
* Fix memory leak for expressions?, aggregates?

And the top of "Performance" is:

* Allow transaction commits with rollback with no-fsync performance
* Prevent fsync in SELECT-only queries

This should help. Did I get all the big items just discussed?

Savepoints.
Error codes.

Vadim

#3Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#2)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

I have updated the TODO list, rearranging it. Here is the top of the
"Enhancements" list:

* Add referential integrity
* Add OUTER joins, left and right(Thomas)
* Allow long tuples by chaining or auto-storing outside db (chaining,large objs)
* Fix memory leak for expressions?, aggregates?

And the top of "Performance" is:

* Allow transaction commits with rollback with no-fsync performance
* Prevent fsync in SELECT-only queries

This should help. Did I get all the big items just discussed?

Savepoints.
Error codes.

I tried to pick items that users were complaining about, not items we
plan to do for 6.6.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#4Hannu Krosing
hannu@trust.ee
In reply to: Bruce Momjian (#1)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Bruce Momjian wrote:

I have updated the TODO list, rearranging it. Here is the top of the
"Enhancements" list:

* Add referential integrity
* Add OUTER joins, left and right(Thomas)
* Allow long tuples by chaining or auto-storing outside db (chaining,large objs)
* Fix memory leak for expressions?, aggregates?

How hard would it bet to separate PREPARE and EXECUTE for queries
and provide some way to pass arguments without converting them to some
ascii representation first?

The main use I need it for is storing small images in ordinary table
fields.

The mechanics should already be there as SPI uses it.

----------------
Hannu

#5Tom Lane
tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us
In reply to: Hannu Krosing (#4)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:

Did I get all the big items just discussed?

Eliminating limits on textual query length.

(This is not same thing as increasing tuple size, although in practice
we'd want to do both in the same release.)

regards, tom lane

#6Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: Tom Lane (#5)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Done.

Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:

Did I get all the big items just discussed?

Eliminating limits on textual query length.

(This is not same thing as increasing tuple size, although in practice
we'd want to do both in the same release.)

regards, tom lane

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#7Kaare Rasmussen
kar@webline.dk
In reply to: Bruce Momjian (#6)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Did I get all the big items just discussed?

Maybe they're too big issues just to add, but when I discuss Postgresql
with people responsible for company decisions about databases they
always mention

- Scalability. This may come if PostgreSQL INC will introduce
clusterwide servers

- Security. One main point is the roll forward facility. I think all
the commercial db's has this?

- Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during
vacuum.

#8ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5
Andreas.Zeugswetter@telecom.at
In reply to: Kaare Rasmussen (#7)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

- Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during
vacuum.

If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then
PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent
snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you
don't change the database layout during the dump.

Andreas

#9Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 (#8)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 wrote:

- Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during
vacuum.

If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then
PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent
snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you
don't change the database layout during the dump.

This is done.

Vacuum doesn't lock entire database. But it acquires access
exclusive lock over table being vacuumed and so delay all
(even SELECT) concurrent query executions. Lock released
after table vacuumed.

Vadim

#10Don Baccus
dhogaza@pacifier.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#9)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 03:44 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 wrote:

If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then
PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent
snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you
don't change the database layout during the dump.

This is done.

You boys need to publicize this. This lacking has been one of the
biggest arguments against using Postgres in any environment with
24-hr access, one example being the web...

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net

#11Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 (#8)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Don Baccus wrote:

At 03:44 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 wrote:

If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then
PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent
snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you
don't change the database layout during the dump.

This is done.

You boys need to publicize this. This lacking has been one of the
biggest arguments against using Postgres in any environment with
24-hr access, one example being the web...

We discussed this issue recently and decided to follow this way,
so I didn't post message when pg_dump was changed, assuming
that it's known by all -:)

Or you talk that this should be mentioned in announcement/release
notes? May be... Though this is obvious feature of MVCC -
consistency read without blocking writers.

Vadim

#12Thomas Lockhart
lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
In reply to: ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 (#8)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
announcement/release notes?

I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

#13Don Baccus
dhogaza@pacifier.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#11)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 10:11 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

We discussed this issue recently and decided to follow this way,
so I didn't post message when pg_dump was changed, assuming
that it's known by all -:)

I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups,
I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very
negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing
of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad
ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are
three huge improvements for people building web sites.
Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to
know this.

And the latest download executes my "group by" clauses rather
than killing the backend, as I found out last night. I've
just sped up a page that returns a bar graph of monthly
data by an order of magnitude, woo-hoo! Before I was
forced to do a separate select for each month (against
about 100,000 records, boo-hiss), now one nice select
grouping data by month just like real databases let me
do, I'm happy!

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net

#14Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5 (#8)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

- Up time. This means hot backup and no locking of the database during
vacuum.

If Vadim made the change to make pg_dump dump in one transaction then
PostgreSQL already has "hot backup" in 6.5. This will do a consistent
snapshot of your database as it was when pg_dump began as long as you
don't change the database layout during the dump.

Excellent point.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#15Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: Don Baccus (#13)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 10:11 PM 6/8/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

We discussed this issue recently and decided to follow this way,
so I didn't post message when pg_dump was changed, assuming
that it's known by all -:)

I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups,
I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very
negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing
of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad
ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are
three huge improvements for people building web sites.
Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to
know this.

And the latest download executes my "group by" clauses rather
than killing the backend, as I found out last night. I've
just sped up a page that returns a bar graph of monthly
data by an order of magnitude, woo-hoo! Before I was
forced to do a separate select for each month (against
about 100,000 records, boo-hiss), now one nice select
grouping data by month just like real databases let me
do, I'm happy!

We really don't have access to web admin channels except through our
mailing list and software lists. You need to get the word out. We
addressed these issues escecially for web/high traffic users.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#16Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: Thomas Lockhart (#12)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
announcement/release notes?

I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...

Added to release notes:

Another big benefit of MVCC is that <application>pg_dump</application>
can now generate consistent backups of live, active databases, without
blocking active transactions.

Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list:

pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim)

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#17Don Baccus
dhogaza@pacifier.com
In reply to: Bruce Momjian (#15)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 12:25 PM 6/8/99 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:

We really don't have access to web admin channels except through our
mailing list and software lists. You need to get the word out. We
addressed these issues escecially for web/high traffic users.

I have been, quietly, to people I know. I gave up on 6.4.2 for my
particular use and had told folks that, and have now told the same
suite of folks that 6.5 appears to be a vast improvement for this
environment, at least for modest web/db projects. Postgres still
doesn't have anywhere near the scalability of, say, Oracle and I'm
not certain that should be the goal. It's far simpler to administer
and install largely for this very reason...and that's a very good
thing for folks wanting to do modest sites.

Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
photography, I'm afraid!

I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
were available...

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net

#18Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: Don Baccus (#13)
1 attachment(s)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Don Baccus wrote:

Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
photography, I'm afraid!

I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
were available...

I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?

Vadim
P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>

Attachments:

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#19Jackson, DeJuan
djackson@cpsgroup.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#18)
RE: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

What about potential deadlocking issues with vacuum? Haven't tried to
deadlock vacuum, but wondering if it's possible.
-DEJ

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Momjian [SMTP:maillist@candle.pha.pa.us]
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:41 AM
To: Thomas Lockhart
Cc: Vadim Mikheev; Don Baccus; ZEUGSWETTER Andreas IZ5;
pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org; 'kar@webline.dk'
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
announcement/release notes?

I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...

Added to release notes:

Another big benefit of MVCC is that
<application>pg_dump</application>
can now generate consistent backups of live, active databases,
without
blocking active transactions.

Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list:

pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim)

-- 
Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
+  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#20Don Baccus
dhogaza@pacifier.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#18)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 01:10 AM 6/9/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?

Nice! I missed this when you posted it, there's been a lot
of traffic on the list with y'all getting ready for release.

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net

#21Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: Jackson, DeJuan (#19)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

"Jackson, DeJuan" wrote:

What about potential deadlocking issues with vacuum? Haven't tried to
deadlock vacuum, but wondering if it's possible.

Shouldn't be possible.

Vacuum never acquires AccessExclusive lock on more than
one table at once. This lock is released immediately
after a relation processed.

SELECT/COPY_TO queries from pg_dump lock relations
in AccessShare mode for duration of query.

Vadim

#22Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: Don Baccus (#13)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Don Baccus wrote:

At 01:10 AM 6/9/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?

Nice! I missed this when you posted it, there's been a lot
of traffic on the list with y'all getting ready for release.

This was posted ~ 6 monthes ago -:)

Vadim

#23Peter Galbavy
Peter.Galbavy@knowledge.com
In reply to: Don Baccus (#13)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

On Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 07:32:41AM -0700, Don Baccus wrote:

I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups,
I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very
negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing
of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad
ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are
three huge improvements for people building web sites.
Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to
know this.

I have to agree with Don, and maybe try to offer an additional couple
of notes. I think, and this is only me - not supported by any facts,
that it would be useful having a highlights section in the release
notes, since the efforts of the developers (of which I hope to be able
to contribute too soon) make sure that each release results in *many*
updates. I would propose classifying these updates into a number of
categories, that would help users identify is (a) it is worth them
updgrading and (maybe more important) (b) if it is worth them trying
to use PGSQL now that "XYZ" has been fixed/implemented.

A quick suggested list:

1. New features
2. Major Performance Updates
3. Major Bug Fixes
4. Security / Reliability Changes
5. Other

Listing updates simple in reverse time order is too confusing.

BTW If no one has time, I will volunteer to do this...

just my $.04c (inflation)
--
Peter Galbavy
Knowledge Matters Ltd
http://www.knowledge.com/

#24Don Baccus
dhogaza@pacifier.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#22)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 02:03 AM 6/9/99 +0800, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

This was posted ~ 6 monthes ago -:)

Oh, I've only been reading the list for a few weeks...

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net

#25Vince Vielhaber
vev@michvhf.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#18)
1 attachment(s)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

On 08-Jun-99 Vadim Mikheev wrote:

Don Baccus wrote:

Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
photography, I'm afraid!

I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
were available...

I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?

Vadim
P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>

I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/
Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Attachments:

powered_button4.gifimage/gif; SizeOnDisk=2047; name=powered_button4.gifDownload
#26Vadim Mikheev
vadim@krs.ru
In reply to: Vince Vielhaber (#25)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Vince Vielhaber wrote:

I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/
Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up.

I like it too.
So, any chance to put all these and others somewhere
in www.postgresql.org?

Vadim

#27Vince Vielhaber
vev@michvhf.com
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#26)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

On 08-Jun-99 Vadim Mikheev wrote:

Vince Vielhaber wrote:

I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/
Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up.

I like it too.
So, any chance to put all these and others somewhere
in www.postgresql.org?

Something that I've been thinking about for the new site, since more than
one of us is thinking this it'll be there (I no longer have to wonder if
it's a good idea :)

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

#28The Hermit Hacker
scrappy@hub.org
In reply to: Vadim Mikheev (#18)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*

On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

Don Baccus wrote:

Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
photography, I'm afraid!

I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
were available...

I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?

Vadim
P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

#29Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: Peter Galbavy (#23)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

On Tue, Jun 08, 1999 at 07:32:41AM -0700, Don Baccus wrote:

I don't mean to this group, or any of the postgres groups,
I mean to the world at large, in which Postgres has a very
negative image for web work. Consistent dumps, killing
of one very bad memory leak (and a bunch of not-so-bad
ones), and moving to mvcc from table-locking - these are
three huge improvements for people building web sites.
Folks outside the normal Postgres community deserve to
know this.

I have to agree with Don, and maybe try to offer an additional couple
of notes. I think, and this is only me - not supported by any facts,
that it would be useful having a highlights section in the release
notes, since the efforts of the developers (of which I hope to be able
to contribute too soon) make sure that each release results in *many*
updates. I would propose classifying these updates into a number of
categories, that would help users identify is (a) it is worth them
updgrading and (maybe more important) (b) if it is worth them trying
to use PGSQL now that "XYZ" has been fixed/implemented.

A quick suggested list:

1. New features
2. Major Performance Updates
3. Major Bug Fixes
4. Security / Reliability Changes
5. Other

Listing updates simple in reverse time order is too confusing.

Already done, on web site, and release notes. Sections are Bugs,
Enhancements, Source code changes.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
#30Don Baccus
dhogaza@pacifier.com
In reply to: Vince Vielhaber (#25)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

At 02:48 PM 6/8/99 -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

I kinda like this one from http://guru.umc.se/imgdb/
Marc found it last week but I didn't get a chance to put it up.

I do, too! A little more subdued and not quite as distracting.

If you want to see how it looks on a page, it now appears on
all pages at http://donb.photo.net/tweeterdom.

(AOLServer makes it easy to decorate all pages coming out of
a site so adding things like this is a piece of cake).

You'll notice I made it a link to http://www.postgresql.org...

- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net

#31The Hermit Hacker
scrappy@hub.org
In reply to: The Hermit Hacker (#28)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*

Oops, had meant to respond to Vince's on the umc.se Powered By :)

On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Vadim Mikheev wrote:

Don Baccus wrote:

Any graphics designers out there? How about a small "Powered
by Postgres" GIF with a snazzy, attractive look? I've come
up with the phrase, but my artistic skills are limited to
photography, I'm afraid!

I'd certainly use such a graphic to decorate my pages if it
were available...

I posted one below a days ago... Any chance to see all such
things somewhere in ftp/www postgresql.org servers?

Vadim
P.S. Created by Michael Ivanov <mike@if-site.com>

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

#32Vince Vielhaber
vev@michvhf.com
In reply to: The Hermit Hacker (#31)
Logos-n-stuff Was: Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

On 08-Jun-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*

Oops, had meant to respond to Vince's on the umc.se Powered By :)

Actually I hoped you were typing at Vadim! I totally forgot about it,
kinda, since I'm more looking to the new stuff (which I'm still waiting
for final decisions so we can get going). Also it occurred to me a few
minutes ago that we never *really* got an approval from the elephant's
author to use that logo - unless core heard something that I didn't.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

#33The Hermit Hacker
scrappy@hub.org
In reply to: Vince Vielhaber (#32)
Re: Logos-n-stuff Was: Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

I asked Jan about it over a month ago, and his response to me was that we
could use it...

On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

On 08-Jun-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

Have you added to our web site? *raised eyebrow*

Oops, had meant to respond to Vince's on the umc.se Powered By :)

Actually I hoped you were typing at Vadim! I totally forgot about it,
kinda, since I'm more looking to the new stuff (which I'm still waiting
for final decisions so we can get going). Also it occurred to me a few
minutes ago that we never *really* got an approval from the elephant's
author to use that logo - unless core heard something that I didn't.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> TEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com
==========================================================================

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

#34Thomas Lockhart
lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
In reply to: Bruce Momjian (#16)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
announcement/release notes?

I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...

Added to release notes:
Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list:
pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim)

?? "I've added a mention of this in the release notes" was supposed to
keep you from doing anything! Wholesale reorganization isn't likely to
make it into hardcopy, and I'm not happy about that. Please remember
that I've already generated hardcopy for a release that was supposed
to happen tomorrow, so gratuitous changes aren't going to go over very
well with me :/

I see that lock.sgml has been updated. But I'll probably need ~2 days
elapsed to finish off the docs, as I mentioned last week.

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

#35Bruce Momjian
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
In reply to: Thomas Lockhart (#34)
Re: [HACKERS] 6.6 items

Or you talk that this should be mentioned in
announcement/release notes?

I've added a mention of this in the release notes, and (Bruce) since
I'll be regenerating INSTALL and HISTORY it will be included in those.
I *should* be able to retrofit it into admin.ps.gz also...

Added to release notes:
Good idea to add this. I also added to the Enhancements list:
pg_dump now can generate consistent snapshots on active databases(Vadim)

?? "I've added a mention of this in the release notes" was supposed to
keep you from doing anything! Wholesale reorganization isn't likely to
make it into hardcopy, and I'm not happy about that. Please remember
that I've already generated hardcopy for a release that was supposed
to happen tomorrow, so gratuitous changes aren't going to go over very
well with me :/

I see that lock.sgml has been updated. But I'll probably need ~2 days
elapsed to finish off the docs, as I mentioned last week.

OK, I am confused. What should we do or not do? I thought release
notes->HISTORY was OK for changes. I realize lock.sgml is harder. Is
it because the release notes are also in admin.gz?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026