the oid is uknown during execution of rule..insert ? (psql ver 6.5.2)

Started by Daniel Péderover 26 years ago1 messages

dpeder@infoset.cz

over 26 years ago

mydb=> create table roid (roid oid, rtext text);
CREATE
mydb=> create table rtext ( rtext text );
CREATE
mydb=> create rule roidset as on insert to rtext do insert into roid values ( new.oid, new.rtext );
CREATE
mydb=> insert into rtext values('text1');
INSERT 17681 1
mydb=> insert into rtext values('text2');
INSERT 17683 1
mydb=> insert into rtext values('text3');
INSERT 17685 1
mydb=> select oid,* from rtext;
oid|rtext
-----+-----
17681|text1
17683|text2
17685|text3
(3 rows)

From bouncefilter Wed Oct 13 15:54:55 1999
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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:21:40 +0200
From: Michael Meskes <meskes@postgresql.org>
To: PostgreSQL Hacker <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: The new globe
Message-ID: <19991013202140.A1583@fam-meskes.de>
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First of all, great work. I love it. Just some minor nitpits:

My mail address while correct in the text is incorrect in the graphic. The
mail address listed there is no longer valid, so mail may bounce.

As for the text, I have done next to nothing for multi-byte support. I guess
this one's incorrect.

Also we list Dr. Andrew Martin (btw if we do list titles, I have a Dr. too
:-)) as having done the ecpg interface. I don't like to offend him, but
Andrew what part of the interface did you write? The original source was
done by Linus Tolke AFAIK.

Michael
--
Dr. Michael Meskes | Go SF 49ers!
Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go Rhein Fire!
Tel.: (+49) 2431/72651 | Use Debian GNU/Linux!
Email: Michael@Fam-Meskes.De | Use PostgreSQL!

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910131831.OAA17018@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [DOCS] Outline for PostgreSQL book
In-Reply-To: <87u2nw8c6x.fsf@cenderis.demon.co.uk> from Bruce Stephens at "Oct
12, 1999 11:08:05 pm"
To: Bruce Stephens <bruce@cenderis.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:31:54 -0400 (EDT)
CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>,
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Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:

PostgreSQL Book Proposal

Bruce Momjian

[...]

4.
Advanced SQL Commands

[...]

6.
Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database
(a)
C Language API
(b)
Embedded C
(c)
C++
(d)
JAVA
(e)
ODBC
(f)
PERL
(g)
TCL/TK
(h)
PYTHON
(i)
Web access (PHP)
(j)
Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI)

Isn't (j) logically part of chapter 4? (Or 5, if it's PostgreSQL
specific.) Or am I completely confused? (Where can I read about
PLPGSQL and/or SPI, other than in the forthcoming book?)

If it came to a choice between having very short sections in chapter
6, and having two or three of them covered in more depth, I'd go for
the latter.

Not sure. They are properly 'programming' to me, so I put them there.
They address a similar programmatic need in the database.

(Of course, you'll inevitably choose two or three which don't match
what many readers will want (whichever two or three you choose), but
even so, I think I'd get more out of a reasonably thorough coverage of
a couple of languages that I won't use than superficial coverage of
all of them which doesn't really reveal anything useful.)

I was going to do a newbie thing and show the advantages of each one.
Not sure I want to go into great depth on any of them. Just enough to
get people started, and using the documentation.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:56:15 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>
cc: pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's
password?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991013145509.00915100@pop.mecomb.po.my>
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On Oct 13, Lincoln Yeoh mentioned:

Then I have problems logging in as ANY user. Couldn't figure out what the
default password for the postgres user was. Only after some messing around
I found that I could log on as the postgres user with the password \N. Not
obvious, at least to me.

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

I only guessed it after looking at the pg_pwd file and noticing a \N there.
Is this where the passwords are stored? By the way should they be stored in
the clear and in a 666 permissions file? How about hashing them with some
salt?

I had this on my personal things-to-consider-working-on list but I don't
see an official todo item. I am personally not sure why this is not done
but authentication and security are not most people's specialty around here.
(including me)

1) There is no obvious way to specify the password for users when you
create a user using the supplied shell script createuser. One has to resort
to psql and stuff.

Aah. Another misguided user. Some people are of the opinion that using the
createuser scripts is a bad idea because it gives you the wrong impression
of how things work. (All createuser does is call psql.) Of course, we
could somehow put a password prompt in there, I'll put that on the above
mentioned list.

2) Neither is there an obvious and easy way to change the user's password.

alter user joe with password "foo";

I'm not sure how obvious it is but it's certainly easy.

3) You can specify a password for a user by using pg_passwd and stick it
into a separate password file, but then there really is no link between
createuser and pg_passwd.

This shows how bad the idea of the scripts was in the first place.

I find the bundled scripts and their associated documentation make things
very nonintuitive when one switches from a blind trust postgres to an
authenticated postgres.

So that would put your vote in the "drop altogether" column? Voting is
still in progress!

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Message-Id: <199910132115.RAA21402@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres
user's password?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910132143330.2573-100000@peter-e.yi.org> from
Peter Eisentraut at "Oct 13, 1999 09:56:15 pm"
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:15:13 -0400 (EDT)
CC: Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>, pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org,
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On Oct 13, Lincoln Yeoh mentioned:

Then I have problems logging in as ANY user. Couldn't figure out what the
default password for the postgres user was. Only after some messing around
I found that I could log on as the postgres user with the password \N. Not
obvious, at least to me.

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

We could enabled it as part of initdb. Prompt them for it there, and
assign it. Seems like there should be one on that account espeically.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

From bouncefilter Wed Oct 13 17:25:06 1999
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From: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] The new globe
To: meskes@postgreSQL.org (Michael Meskes)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:20:15 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <19991013202140.A1583@fam-meskes.de> from "Michael Meskes" at Oct
13, 99 08:21:40 pm
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Dr. Michael Meskes wrote:
^^^

First of all, great work. I love it. Just some minor nitpits:

Why do so many people like such a simple graphic? :-)

My mail address while correct in the text is incorrect in the graphic. The
mail address listed there is no longer valid, so mail may bounce.

Hmmm - the address in the graphic, the one in the text and
the mailto: hyperlink on it are all the same:
<meskes@postgresql.org> - or do I need new glasses?

As for the text, I have done next to nothing for multi-byte support. I guess
this one's incorrect.

Also we list Dr. Andrew Martin (btw if we do list titles, I have a Dr. too
:-)) as having done the ecpg interface. I don't like to offend him, but
Andrew what part of the interface did you write? The original source was
done by Linus Tolke AFAIK.

Now it starts, so let's grab the chance.

Well, the ~wieck developers page was just a quick hack to
demonstrate how my version would look like. But it seems to
be the right time to tidy up the entire content before I
release the lock and hand it back to Bruce and Vince. I
wondered all the time I worked on it why there's a pin for
Neil while he's not mentioned in the text at all?!?

Would ANYONE who's listed or pinned on the page/graphic, and
those who want to be, please drop me a little note including:

o the complete name, maybe title (if they want) and
location (like {in|near} Hamburg, Germany). For
locations usually unknown in the world (like Harsefeld in
my case) we use a bigger town close to that and say near.
o the LAT/LON position of their location so I don't have to
lookup everyone in my maps,
o the correct eMail address,
o and most important, the contributions they have made to
PostgreSQL.

Jan

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #

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From: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
To: peter_e@gmx.net (Peter Eisentraut)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:32:20 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: vev@michvhf.com, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910131911130.2573-100000@peter-e.yi.org> from
"Peter Eisentraut" at Oct 13, 99 07:27:50 pm
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Peter Eisentraut wrote:

0 pgblah
3 1/2 pg_blah (Bruce, Sergio K, Dmitry S, -1/2 Thomas, myself)
1/2 pgadddb (Marc)
1 1/2 as is (Thomas, Vince)
1 none (Marc)

Hmm, I guess that does it. pg_createdb and symlinks for one release with
warnings for deprecated forms.

Make the whole thing configurable and anyone should be happy.

--pg_admin_script_prefix={pg_|pg|*empty*|*whatever_you_prefer*}
--pg_admin_script_install={yes|no}

It's not a joke. Someone might want to have his user account
to have access to his production and test DB at the same
time. So he could setup his PATH to both installations bin
directories and configure the test DB to use a different
default PGPORT and different script prefixes. Then
pg_createdb would contact another postmaster than
devel_createdb would do. Well, the installed binaries like
psql would need some configurable prefix too then.

Jan

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910132138.RAA22278@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] The new globe
In-Reply-To: <m11bVol-0003kLC@orion.SAPserv.Hamburg.dsh.de> from Jan Wieck at
"Oct 13, 1999 11:20:15 pm"
To: Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:38:50 -0400 (EDT)
CC: Michael Meskes <meskes@postgresql.org>, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Well, the ~wieck developers page was just a quick hack to
demonstrate how my version would look like. But it seems to
be the right time to tidy up the entire content before I
release the lock and hand it back to Bruce and Vince. I
wondered all the time I worked on it why there's a pin for
Neil while he's not mentioned in the text at all?!?

Would ANYONE who's listed or pinned on the page/graphic, and
those who want to be, please drop me a little note including:

o the complete name, maybe title (if they want) and
location (like {in|near} Hamburg, Germany). For
locations usually unknown in the world (like Harsefeld in
my case) we use a bigger town close to that and say near.
o the LAT/LON position of their location so I don't have to
lookup everyone in my maps,
o the correct eMail address,
o and most important, the contributions they have made to
PostgreSQL.

Yes, please folks, let's send him the updates.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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CC: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>,
pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the
postgresuser's password?
References: <199910132115.RAA21402@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Bruce Momjian wrote:

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

We could enabled it as part of initdb. Prompt them for it there, and
assign it. Seems like there should be one on that account espeically.

Also, allow a command line option to set the password for those who need
to automate things (like us RedHat people...). This is, I assume, for
the postgres user INSIDE the initial database structure, as opposed to
the postgres user on the OS.

Since, under the RedHat installation, the initdb likely will happen
during initial system startup, having a prompt for a password at that
point is IMHO not good. Having a default password (in the initdb'd
pg_shadow) would be better.

If this is about the OS userame 'postgres', ignore that. The RPM
installation already creates him, and makes it impossible to directly
log in as 'postgres' -- until root changes his password.

IMHO, of course.

--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
Pisgah Forest, North Carolina
1 Peter 4:11

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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the
postgresuser's password?
In-Reply-To: <3804FDA4.17B0C110@wgcr.org> from Lamar Owen at "Oct 13,
1999 05:46:12 pm"
To: Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:09:16 -0400 (EDT)
CC: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>,
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Bruce Momjian wrote:

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

We could enabled it as part of initdb. Prompt them for it there, and
assign it. Seems like there should be one on that account espeically.

Also, allow a command line option to set the password for those who need
to automate things (like us RedHat people...). This is, I assume, for
the postgres user INSIDE the initial database structure, as opposed to
the postgres user on the OS.

Since, under the RedHat installation, the initdb likely will happen
during initial system startup, having a prompt for a password at that
point is IMHO not good. Having a default password (in the initdb'd
pg_shadow) would be better.

If this is about the OS userame 'postgres', ignore that. The RPM
installation already creates him, and makes it impossible to directly
log in as 'postgres' -- until root changes his password.

No, this is about the pgsql-supplied postgres password.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres
user's password?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910132143330.2573-100000@peter-e.yi.org>
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Hi,

followin this thread, I think
It would be useful to allow user to connect to database he owned (created)
without password even if pg_hba.conf is configured with password requirement
to this database. Or owner of database could maintain list of
users/groups whom he granted trusted connection. After user connects
usual grant priviliges could works. Currently it's a pain to
work with authentification system - I have to input my password
every time I use psql and moreover I had to specify it in
perl scripts I developed. Sometimes it's not easy to maintain secure
file permissions espec. if several developers share common work.
Any user (even not postgres user) could use stealed password to connects
to your database. In my proposal, security is rely on local login
security. You already passed password control. There are another checks
like priviliges. You write your scripts without hardcoded passwords !
Of course this could be just an option in case you need "paranoic" security.
Having more granulated privilege types as Mysql does would only make
my proposal more secure. You're allowed to connect, but owner of database
could restrict you even list of tables, indices et. all.

Regards,

Oleg

PS.
I didn't find any plans to improve authen. in TODO

On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:56:15 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>
Cc: pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's password?

On Oct 13, Lincoln Yeoh mentioned:

Then I have problems logging in as ANY user. Couldn't figure out what the
default password for the postgres user was. Only after some messing around
I found that I could log on as the postgres user with the password \N. Not
obvious, at least to me.

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

I only guessed it after looking at the pg_pwd file and noticing a \N there.
Is this where the passwords are stored? By the way should they be stored in
the clear and in a 666 permissions file? How about hashing them with some
salt?

I had this on my personal things-to-consider-working-on list but I don't
see an official todo item. I am personally not sure why this is not done
but authentication and security are not most people's specialty around here.
(including me)

1) There is no obvious way to specify the password for users when you
create a user using the supplied shell script createuser. One has to resort
to psql and stuff.

Aah. Another misguided user. Some people are of the opinion that using the
createuser scripts is a bad idea because it gives you the wrong impression
of how things work. (All createuser does is call psql.) Of course, we
could somehow put a password prompt in there, I'll put that on the above
mentioned list.

2) Neither is there an obvious and easy way to change the user's password.

alter user joe with password "foo";

I'm not sure how obvious it is but it's certainly easy.

3) You can specify a password for a user by using pg_passwd and stick it
into a separate password file, but then there really is no link between
createuser and pg_passwd.

This shows how bad the idea of the scripts was in the first place.

I find the bundled scripts and their associated documentation make things
very nonintuitive when one switches from a blind trust postgres to an
authenticated postgres.

So that would put your vote in the "drop altogether" column? Voting is
still in progress!

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

************

_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

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To: Bruce Stephens <bruce@cenderis.demon.co.uk>
CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>,
PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [DOCS] Outline for PostgreSQL book
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<87u2nw8c6x.fsf@cenderis.demon.co.uk>
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Bruce Stephens wrote:

Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:

PostgreSQL Book Proposal

Bruce Momjian

[...]

4.
Advanced SQL Commands

[...]

6.
Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database
(a)
C Language API
(b)
Embedded C
(c)
C++
(d)
JAVA
(e)
ODBC
(f)
PERL
(g)
TCL/TK
(h)
PYTHON
(i)
Web access (PHP)
(j)
Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI)

Isn't (j) logically part of chapter 4? (Or 5, if it's PostgreSQL
specific.) Or am I completely confused? (Where can I read about
PLPGSQL and/or SPI, other than in the forthcoming book?)

If it came to a choice between having very short sections in chapter
6, and having two or three of them covered in more depth, I'd go for
the latter.

(Of course, you'll inevitably choose two or three which don't match
what many readers will want (whichever two or three you choose), but
even so, I think I'd get more out of a reasonably thorough coverage of
a couple of languages that I won't use than superficial coverage of
all of them which doesn't really reveal anything useful.)

************

I second this opinion.

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To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
cc: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] psql Week 2
From: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Reply-To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:32:42 +0200.
<Pine.LNX.4.10.9910131929030.2573-100000@peter-e.yi.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:33:41 +0900
Sender: t-ishii@ext04.sra.co.jp

I was initially planning on 4 weeks, but this week is really tight, so I
might need to finish with less. I don't want to occupy this thing forever
either.

I'm not in hurry. I just want to make sure that I have enough time
before 7.0 is out. So keep your pace, please.

Meanwhile I (think I) have been careful about multibyte stuff but it's
probably good if you take a look. Perhaps you can start with the tarball I
posted. It should be working.

That's a good news. I will check the tarbal.
---
Tatsuo Ishii

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To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
cc: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sort on huge table
From: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Reply-To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:10:21 -0400.
<20868.939827421@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:34:03 +0900
Sender: t-ishii@ext04.sra.co.jp

The current sorting code will fail if the data volume exceeds whatever
the maximum file size is on your OS. (Actually, if long is 32 bits,
it might fail at 2gig even if your OS can handle 4gig; not sure, but
it is doing signed-long arithmetic with byte offsets...)

I am just about to commit code that fixes this by allowing temp files
to have multiple segments like tables can.

OK, committed. I have tested this code using a small RELSEG_SIZE,
and it seems to work, but I don't have the spare disk space to try
a full-scale test with > 4Gb of data. Anyone care to try it?

I will test it with my 2GB table. Creating 4GB would probably be
possible, but I don't have enough sort space for that:-) I ran my
previous test on 6.5.2, not on current. I hope current is stable
enough to perform my testing.

I have not yet done anything about the excessive space consumption
(4x data volume), so plan on using 16+Gb of diskspace to sort a 4+Gb
table --- and that's not counting where you put the output ;-)

Talking about the -S, I did use the default since setting -S seems to
consume too much memory. For example, if I set it to 128MB, backend
process grows over 512MB and it was killed due to swap space was run
out. Maybe 4x law can be also applicated to -S?
---
Tatsuo Ishii

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:51:38 +0800
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
From: Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's
password?
Cc: pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
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At 09:56 PM 13-10-1999 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

Initdb sounds ok. Just have no password by default. \N is strange!

the clear and in a 666 permissions file? How about hashing them with some
salt?

I had this on my personal things-to-consider-working-on list but I don't
see an official todo item. I am personally not sure why this is not done
but authentication and security are not most people's specialty around here.
(including me)

Well I don't really know C or C++.

But you could do the following:
p= plain password
s= salt (some random stuff).
p=p+s (append salt to password).
msg= random number from 1 to 4.
Do following msg times: p=hash(p);

Store in password file as
hashed password= p
salt = s
Multiple salt grinds= msg

If msg set to 0 and salt to null you can have plaintext passwords (this can
be convenient sometimes).

Hash function = SHA1, MD5, etc. You might wish to store hash type, e.g. 1=
SHA1, 2=MD5..

2) Neither is there an obvious and easy way to change the user's password.

alter user joe with password "foo";

I'm not sure how obvious it is but it's certainly easy.

Hmm, I couldn't find that tho. And I did look at the Admin guide docs.

In fact I tried altering user permissions and stuff by trying UPDATEs on
the template1.pg_user table and somehow that didn't work. Is there a reason
why that doesn't work? It says 0 rows affected, and my where clause works
if it's a SELECT. I was the postgres superuser too.

3) You can specify a password for a user by using pg_passwd and stick it
into a separate password file, but then there really is no link between
createuser and pg_passwd.

This shows how bad the idea of the scripts was in the first place.

Well I know what pg_passwd can be used for. Useful but it seems like it's
slapped on- what's a good way to use and admin it? If I set up pg_hba.conf
to use an optional password file would the Postgres super user
authentication be taken from there too?

I find the bundled scripts and their associated documentation make things
very nonintuitive when one switches from a blind trust postgres to an
authenticated postgres.

So that would put your vote in the "drop altogether" column? Voting is
still in progress!

I'm neutral. I don't mind doing everything from psql.

Perhaps the Admin guide should have a section on "How Real Postgres Admins
do stuff"- e.g. using psql for admin stuff.

I believe the scripts were created when Postgres users didn't really bother
about authentication. They could be fine if they have authentication in mind.

But as is, it's like:
1) No authentication.
Scripts fine- convenient too.
Psql fine.
Everything fine.

2) Authentication on.
Scripts don't work.
Psql works if you can figure out the Postgres user password.

Ick.

Also there's
1) A shadow file
2) A pg_pwd file (why this and shadow?)
3) An option to have a password file.

This is just some grumbling, overall Postgres 6.5.x is quite impressive.
Great improvement from Postgres95 which I tried and gave up on two years
ago- I switched to MySQL.

I still get a "cleaner" and clearer impression about MySQL authentication
and access controls. The MySQL docs are very clear on that, in general the
MySQL documentation is good.

Maybe the current postgres scripts do confuse things. Still, the current
Postgres docs are better than the Oracle docs, they are actually useful ;).
Is it just me, or is installing Oracle based on the Oracle installation
manual like doing surgery following an academic textbook? e.g. chapter 1
has 100 ways to do an incision. Chapter 2 has 20 ways on sewing up. Chapter
3 discusses anaesthesia. Chapter 4- tying blood vessels, (by the way please
refer to chapter 2 for more sewing hints).. And so on. In the end one has
to go to the web and look for a HOWTO :).

Cheerio,

Link.

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From: Nicolas Huillard <nhuillard@ghs.fr>
To: "'Oleg Bartunov'" <oleg@sai.msu.su>,
"'Peter Eisentraut'" <peter_e@gmx.net>
Cc: "'Lincoln Yeoh'" <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>, "'pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org'"
<pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org>, "'pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org'"
<pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres
user's password?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:39:07 +0200
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Hello,

I agree with this point of view : the granularity of the authentication is not small enough to allow a good setup of access security to the PG databases.
I plan to setup a database backed web servers :
* the databases are stored on one Linux box,
* the Apache servers are on another,
* all machines are exposed to all attacks from the Internet (and there are a lot)
* some databases must be feed via ODBC connections from workstations.
I can setup :
* the firewall on Linux to allow rough and low-level security restrictions,
* the pg_hba.conf can be setup to allow connections from the Apache box only
* there is still a problem for the access to the database themselves : site 1 should access database 1, and not database 2, but there should have the least password in the calling scripts
* etc...

I already posted a message concerning security, but nobody seems to be concerned about this. I read the advices at www.cert.org, and since then, I became paranoiac...
I don't know exactly how it would be better to do, but a KISS solution would be good (I don't want to setup a Kerberos authentications for instance, because it could work badly with simple workstations updating data via ODBC).

Nicolas Huillard

-----Message d'origine-----
De: Oleg Bartunov [SMTP:oleg@sai.msu.su]
Date: jeudi 14 octobre 1999 00:11
��: Peter Eisentraut
Cc: Lincoln Yeoh; pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org; pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Objet: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's password?

Hi,

Regards,

Oleg

PS.
I didn't find any plans to improve authen. in TODO

On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:56:15 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>
Cc: pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's password?

On Oct 13, Lincoln Yeoh mentioned:

Then I have problems logging in as ANY user. Couldn't figure out what the
default password for the postgres user was. Only after some messing around
I found that I could log on as the postgres user with the password \N. Not
obvious, at least to me.

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

I only guessed it after looking at the pg_pwd file and noticing a \N there.
Is this where the passwords are stored? By the way should they be stored in
the clear and in a 666 permissions file? How about hashing them with some
salt?

I had this on my personal things-to-consider-working-on list but I don't
see an official todo item. I am personally not sure why this is not done
but authentication and security are not most people's specialty around here.
(including me)

1) There is no obvious way to specify the password for users when you
create a user using the supplied shell script createuser. One has to resort
to psql and stuff.

Aah. Another misguided user. Some people are of the opinion that using the
createuser scripts is a bad idea because it gives you the wrong impression
of how things work. (All createuser does is call psql.) Of course, we
could somehow put a password prompt in there, I'll put that on the above
mentioned list.

2) Neither is there an obvious and easy way to change the user's password.

alter user joe with password "foo";

I'm not sure how obvious it is but it's certainly easy.

3) You can specify a password for a user by using pg_passwd and stick it
into a separate password file, but then there really is no link between
createuser and pg_passwd.

This shows how bad the idea of the scripts was in the first place.

I find the bundled scripts and their associated documentation make things
very nonintuitive when one switches from a blind trust postgres to an
authenticated postgres.

So that would put your vote in the "drop altogether" column? Voting is
still in progress!

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

************

************
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:10:20 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <e99re41@DoCS.UU.SE>
Reply-To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
cc: vev@michvhf.com, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

Make the whole thing configurable and anyone should be happy.

--pg_admin_script_prefix={pg_|pg|*empty*|*whatever_you_prefer*}
--pg_admin_script_install={yes|no}

Way initially I was suggesting
--enable-scripts=old|new|both|none (default new)
but Bruce found *that* too complicated.

I can see your point here, accessing different db installations, but I
think that is a highly specialized case (and you should be using psql
anyway, but that seems to be a culture issue).

But the scripts have no concept of default ports etc., that's in libpq. So
you can use pg_createdb for whatever your default install is, and
pg_createdb -p foo for your alternate installation. Or you could alias
this or something.

(Btw., anyone else think a /etc/services entry is better than a hardwired
default port, at least on the libpq side of things? Of course, I'm not
sure about Windows here.)

It's not a joke. Someone might want to have his user account
to have access to his production and test DB at the same
time. So he could setup his PATH to both installations bin
directories and configure the test DB to use a different
default PGPORT and different script prefixes. Then
pg_createdb would contact another postmaster than
devel_createdb would do. Well, the installed binaries like
psql would need some configurable prefix too then.

Jan

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:18:29 +0200 (MET DST)
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Reply-To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Lamar Owen <lamar.owen@wgcr.org>
cc: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>,
Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>, pgsql-general@postgresql.org,
pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the
postgresuser's password?
In-Reply-To: <3804FDA4.17B0C110@wgcr.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9910141311370.29358-100000@Ekorre.DoCS.UU.SE>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Lamar Owen wrote:

Bruce Momjian wrote:

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

We could enabled it as part of initdb. Prompt them for it there, and
assign it. Seems like there should be one on that account espeically.

Also, allow a command line option to set the password for those who need
to automate things (like us RedHat people...). This is, I assume, for
the postgres user INSIDE the initial database structure, as opposed to
the postgres user on the OS.

Since, under the RedHat installation, the initdb likely will happen
during initial system startup, having a prompt for a password at that
point is IMHO not good. Having a default password (in the initdb'd
pg_shadow) would be better.

Um, a default pre-packaged password would yield the whole concept next to
useless. I personally think an advice after initdb ("You really ought to
assign a password to the superuser now.") will suffice. If people don't do
what they're told, too bad. On the other hand, I'll check into that \N
default password.

This whole security concept needs overhaul anyway, but I don't see it
happening anytime soon.

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

(Btw., anyone else think a /etc/services entry is better than a hardwired
default port, at least on the libpq side of things? Of course, I'm not
sure about Windows here.)

Would require root intervention to install, which is something that we've
always avoided, and discouraged...

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Clark C. Evans" <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
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To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
In-Reply-To: <199910131831.OAA17018@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Bruce,

Were you going to do this as a "group" project or
is it a "solo" venture?

If its a group project, I assume you are the "owner"
of the "uber-contract" until it sells to a book
publisher. To do this right, you would divide
this contract into small peices, or sub-contracts.
Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
against these components. Right now, for instance,
you have a book-outline project which people are
working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
Then, as people track their time against these
sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
of their hours. If approved, then the contributer
owns a portion of the sub-contract, and thus a
portion of the overall book. How compensation is
done is up to you if you specify it before hand,
or it is up to the owners if you wait until the book
sells. The compensation schedule may be something
like this:

Thus, the total royalty stream allocated will
be less than 100%, and will be divided among,
at most 9 people, which is managable. The remainder
of the royalty stream can be donated to the
site maintenance or can be used to fund a bonus
pool for future projects / documentation maintance.

...

However, if it is a "solo" deal, then you you should
make it pretty clear -- otherwise I see heart-ache and
bad feelings.

...

Why do it this way? Beacuse PostgreSQL is a community
effort, and a solo book sucks. Also, you want the
book done, so direct rewards for contribution work
does wonders! To use parts of the documentation,
Thomas Lockheart would have to be given a percentage
in the book, etc. Anyway, if the system is clear
you will get far more help than otherwise...

I'll be glad to maintain the "contract hierarchy"
(per your direction) and to accept timesheets
from people, preparing a weelky summary for you
to approve. Then, I will maintain a page with
progress on each sub-contract (or sub-sub-contract)
so that we can go about this in a very organized way.

I'm in it to see a kick ass book and to see
a collaborative effort win.

What do you think? Thomas?

Clark

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:07:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jeff MacDonald <jeff@hub.org>
Reply-To: Jeff MacDonald <jeff@hub.org>
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
cc: Dmitry Samersoff <dms@wplus.net>, Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>,
Oliver Elphick <olly@lfix.co.uk>,
PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgreSQL.org>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [DOCS] Re: [HACKERS] Outline for PostgreSQL book
In-Reply-To: <199910131111.HAA02615@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910141106250.28983-100000@penguin.hub.org>
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Last night Marc and i picked up

Object Relation DBMS
Michael Stonebraker & Paul Brown
Pub: Morgan Kaufman
ISBN 1 55860 452 9

It was reccommented by a potential client, i'll put up
a review when i finish it.

Jeff

On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

[Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]

On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote:

On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

2BOOK Authors:
Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another
languages by you self, not by publisher.

I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company
to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers
like O'Reilly have too hard license policy
and too long reaction time.

FYI, I just did bibliography, and got:

(a) The Practical SQL Handbook, Bowman et al., Addison Wesley
(b) Web Development with PHP and PostgreSQL, \ldots{}, Addison Wesley
(c) A Guide to The SQL Standard, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley
(d) An Introduction to Database Systems, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley
(e) SQL For Smarties, Joe Celko, Morgan, Kaufmann

Looks like Addision Wesley is the winner.
-- 
Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
+  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
************

Jeff MacDonald
jeff@hub.org

===================================================================
So long as the Universe had a beginning, we can suppose it had a
creator, but if the Universe is completly self contained , having
no boundry or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed
It would simply be.
===================================================================

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From: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] The new globe
To: maillist@candle.pha.pa.us (Bruce Momjian)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 16:13:15 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: wieck@debis.com, meskes@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <199910132138.RAA22278@candle.pha.pa.us> from "Bruce Momjian" at
Oct 13, 99 05:38:50 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
Content-Type: text

Would ANYONE who's listed or pinned on the page/graphic, and
those who want to be, please drop me a little note including:

o the complete name, maybe title (if they want) and
location (like {in|near} Hamburg, Germany). For
locations usually unknown in the world (like Harsefeld in
my case) we use a bigger town close to that and say near.
o the LAT/LON position of their location so I don't have to
lookup everyone in my maps,
o the correct eMail address,
o and most important, the contributions they have made to
PostgreSQL.

Yes, please folks, let's send him the updates.

Just uploaded the latest version. You need a Shift+Reload to
get the latest image corresponding to the map. I polished it
up a little, filled water into some lakes and added some text
to the lower half.

Added are:

Oleg Bartunov,
Byron Nikolaidis (just the pin) and
Lamar Owen.

Now the east coast is more packed - just like europe. :-)

In the text section I've added another cathegory "Non-code
contributors". That's where I added Oleg.

Jan

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Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:39:35 -0400 (EDT)
To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sort on huge table
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:34:03 +0900
<199910140134.KAA10375@ext16.sra.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:39:35 -0400
Message-ID: <28529.939911975@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>

Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp> writes:

OK, committed. I have tested this code using a small RELSEG_SIZE,
and it seems to work, but I don't have the spare disk space to try
a full-scale test with > 4Gb of data. Anyone care to try it?

I will test it with my 2GB table. Creating 4GB would probably be
possible, but I don't have enough sort space for that:-)

OK. I am working on reducing the space requirement, but it would be
nice to test the bottom-level multi-temp-file code before layering
more stuff on top of it. Anyone else have a whole bunch of free
disk space they could try a big sort with?

I ran my previous test on 6.5.2, not on current. I hope current is
stable enough to perform my testing.

It seems reasonably stable here, though I'm not doing much except
testing... main problem is you'll need to initdb, which means importing
your large dataset...

Talking about the -S, I did use the default since setting -S seems to
consume too much memory. For example, if I set it to 128MB, backend
process grows over 512MB and it was killed due to swap space was run
out. Maybe 4x law can be also applicated to -S?

If the code is working correctly then -S should be obeyed ---
approximately, anyway, since psort.c only counts the actual tuple data;
it doesn't know anything about AllocSet overhead &etc. But it looked
to me like there might be some plain old memory leaks in psort.c, which
could account for actual usage being much more than intended. I am
going to work on cleaning up psort.c after I finish building
infrastructure for it.

regards, tom lane

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To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
cc: t-ishii@sra.co.jp, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sort on huge table
From: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Reply-To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:39:35 -0400.
<28529.939911975@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:59:13 +0900
Sender: t-ishii@srapc451.sra.co.jp

I will test it with my 2GB table. Creating 4GB would probably be
possible, but I don't have enough sort space for that:-)

OK. I am working on reducing the space requirement, but it would be
nice to test the bottom-level multi-temp-file code before layering
more stuff on top of it. Anyone else have a whole bunch of free
disk space they could try a big sort with?

I ran my previous test on 6.5.2, not on current. I hope current is
stable enough to perform my testing.

It seems reasonably stable here, though I'm not doing much except
testing... main problem is you'll need to initdb, which means importing
your large dataset...

I have done the 2GB test on current (with your fixes). This time the
sorting query worked great! I saw lots of temp files, but the total
disk usage was almost same as before (~10GB). So I assume this is ok.

Talking about the -S, I did use the default since setting -S seems to
consume too much memory. For example, if I set it to 128MB, backend
process grows over 512MB and it was killed due to swap space was run
out. Maybe 4x law can be also applicated to -S?

If the code is working correctly then -S should be obeyed ---
approximately, anyway, since psort.c only counts the actual tuple data;
it doesn't know anything about AllocSet overhead &etc. But it looked
to me like there might be some plain old memory leaks in psort.c, which
could account for actual usage being much more than intended. I am
going to work on cleaning up psort.c after I finish building
infrastructure for it.

I did set the -S to 8MB, and it seems boost the performance. It took
only 22:37 (previous result was ~45:00).
---
Tatsuo Ishii

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To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sort on huge table
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:59:13 +0900
<199910141459.XAA09758@srapc451.sra.co.jp>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:03:54 -0400
Message-ID: <28677.939913434@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>

Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp> writes:

I have done the 2GB test on current (with your fixes). This time the
sorting query worked great! I saw lots of temp files, but the total
disk usage was almost same as before (~10GB). So I assume this is ok.

Sounds like it is working then. Thanks for running the test. I'll try
to finish the next step this weekend.

regards, tom lane

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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 08:47:30 -0700
To: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
From: "Henry B. Hotz" <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
Cc: Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>, vev@michvhf.com, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org

At 6:17 AM -0700 10/14/99, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

(Btw., anyone else think a /etc/services entry is better than a hardwired
default port, at least on the libpq side of things? Of course, I'm not
sure about Windows here.)

Would require root intervention to install, which is something that we've
always avoided, and discouraged...

Wouldn't it make it harder to build test installations running on the same
machine as a production server?

Signature failed Preliminary Design Review.
Feasibility of a new signature is currently being evaluated.
h.b.hotz@jpl.nasa.gov, or hbhotz@oxy.edu

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References: <199910131831.OAA17018@candle.pha.pa.us>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:07:12 -0700
To: "Clark C. Evans" <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>,
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
From: "Henry B. Hotz" <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
Cc: PostgreSQL-documentation <docs@postgresql.org>

At 7:04 AM -0700 10/14/99, Clark C. Evans wrote:

Bruce,

Were you going to do this as a "group" project or
is it a "solo" venture?

If its a group project, I assume you are the "owner"
of the "uber-contract" until it sells to a book
publisher. To do this right, you would divide
this contract into small peices, or sub-contracts.
Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
against these components. Right now, for instance,
you have a book-outline project which people are
working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
Then, as people track their time against these
sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
of their hours. If approved, then the contributer

The way this is normally done is to do a page or word count of the finished
product. Each author owns a "chapter". The editor negotiates with the
publisher and takes a cut off the top. Counting time is a bad idea IMHO.
Too much uncertainty and inequity.

Of course in this case there is a lot of pre-existing text which makes
counting pages hard. Is there any way we can make this whole thing owned
by postgresql.org and just use the proceeds for the project? I haven't
been tracking the legal status.

Signature failed Preliminary Design Review.
Feasibility of a new signature is currently being evaluated.
h.b.hotz@jpl.nasa.gov, or hbhotz@oxy.edu

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To: Lincoln Yeoh <lylyeoh@mecomb.com>, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's
password?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:51:53 -0600
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<3.0.5.32.19991014155138.0084ab10@pop.mecomb.po.my>
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hi...

There is a todo item for the postgres user to have a password by default.
I'm not sure though how that would be done. Probably in initdb. (?)

Initdb sounds ok. Just have no password by default. \N is strange!

or how about a prompt for a password? when you run initdb it asks for a
password? or even a yes/no? i don't like leaving things to command line
switches, its too easy for a user to ignore/be ignorant of them and create a
situation that isn't secure or isn't what they want w/out knowing it. this only
reflects badly on the product at large instead of the clueless admin. :o/

2) Neither is there an obvious and easy way to change the user's password.

alter user joe with password "foo";

I'm not sure how obvious it is but it's certainly easy.

Hmm, I couldn't find that tho. And I did look at the Admin guide docs.

i wasn't aware of this either (being relatively new to postgres.. less than a
year) but it smacks of ugly, imo.

I find the bundled scripts and their associated documentation make things
very nonintuitive when one switches from a blind trust postgres to an
authenticated postgres.

So that would put your vote in the "drop altogether" column? Voting is
still in progress!

I'm neutral. I don't mind doing everything from psql.

Perhaps the Admin guide should have a section on "How Real Postgres Admins
do stuff"- e.g. using psql for admin stuff.

personally, i think that psql should not be allowed to do any admin stuff..
othewise it become a potential security hazard on a machine used by lots of
people. it should (imo) only be a database structure and data
retrieval/manipulation tool...

admin functions should occur from a seperate stand alone program. this way, you
avoid the ugliness of the scripts, which are inherently inflexible and bound to
be broken... also, you have one central agency that can be put under the
permissions of the postgres user or the DBA group on the box its installed on.

also, if its a stand-alone command-line program (C/C++/whatever) we can then
put a nice GUI front end on it and have a graphical admin tool which would be
AMAZINGLY useful. i'd probably even be willing to help write it (i'm just now
dipping into the world QT and finding it extremely exciting =)

this would also demand that we all "sit down" and come up with a standard, well
though-out process for security to be implemented in the admin tool.
perhaps even a different mailing list would be in order for this ...

the things i would love the admin tool to cover are (in no particular order):

o creating and admining users
o passwords
o access privileges
o creating databases
o creating and admining back up policies and procedures
o maintaining a postgres installation
o disk usage
o postmaster options
o back-end options
o default policies for new databases
o logging and usage analysis
o source code management (important, imo, for open source projects)
o compile-time options (with/without TCL, etc)
o application of patches (to alleviate the need to do this "by hand")
0 upgrading from version w.x to version x.y

the tool could be made modular, so we can create a skeleton system and
add/remove/alter modules as we (the user community) desire.

Is it just me, or is installing Oracle based on the Oracle installation
manual like doing surgery following an academic textbook? e.g. chapter 1
has 100 ways to do an incision. Chapter 2 has 20 ways on sewing up. Chapter
3 discusses anaesthesia. Chapter 4- tying blood vessels, (by the way please
refer to chapter 2 for more sewing hints).. And so on. In the end one has

ROFL!!!! yes!!!! why is it that commercial software vendors INSIST on making
their manuals so arcane that they are as readable as the product is usable
w/out a manual? haha...

--
Aaron J. Seigo
Sys Admin

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From: "Aaron J. Seigo" <aaron@gtv.ca>
To: Nicolas Huillard <nhuillard@ghs.fr>, "'Oleg Bartunov'" <oleg@sai.msu.su>,
"'Peter Eisentraut'" <peter_e@gmx.net>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:11:05 -0600
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hi..

* there is still a problem for the access to the database themselves : site
1 should access database 1, and not database 2, but there should have the
least password in the calling scripts

a quick thought: if you are really paranoid, set up different installations of
postgres, even if on the same box... don't run them on the default port, set up
seperate pg_hba files and it should keep everything QUITE seperate.

I already posted a message concerning security, but nobody seems to be
concerned about this. I read the advices at www.cert.org, and since then, I
became paranoiac...

as a side note, CERT sucks. they know security, if only because they know about
much of the cracking activity on the net, via reports. however, they are
close-mouthed about it all. they don't offer solutions, don't require vendors
to produce solutions and don't tell the public about the problems until the
vendor says "ok, tell 'em now", which is usually FAR too late. why do you think
they lose most of their star players (such as the guy who wrote SATAN?)? A:
frustration.

there are MUCH better security sites/sources than CERT. e.g. security portal.

--
Aaron J. Seigo
Sys Admin

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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Thanks Bruce, just thought that I'd put in
the suggestion. I'm sure with your experience
it will be a fantastic book!

;) Clark

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I am taking this on as a solo project.

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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from "Clark C. Evans" at "Oct 14, 1999 10:04:32 am"
To: "Clark C. Evans" <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:05:55 -0400 (EDT)
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Bruce,

Were you going to do this as a "group" project or
is it a "solo" venture?

I am taking this on as a solo project.

However, if it is a "solo" deal, then you you should
make it pretty clear -- otherwise I see heart-ache and
bad feelings.

I have hesitated to talk about this in any more detail until I have
discussed this via telephone with Marc, Thomas, and Tom Lane. I feel I
need to get clearance from them on this. Vadim, unfortunately, is too
far away to telephone.

Why do it this way? Beacuse PostgreSQL is a community
effort, and a solo book sucks. Also, you want the
book done, so direct rewards for contribution work
does wonders! To use parts of the documentation,
Thomas Lockheart would have to be given a percentage
in the book, etc. Anyway, if the system is clear
you will get far more help than otherwise...

Well, I don't think a "group-written" book is going to read very well.
Everyone has a different style, and a mis-mash of writing styles in a
book will not work. It also will take too long to produce a book in
that way.

The book will be available via the Web and in PDF format even before it
is completed. (I am writing it using LyX/LaTeX). I have written the
first two chapters, and will be putting them out for everyone to read
and use very soon. This book project will clearly be a win for all
PostgreSQL users, whether they buy the book or not.

That doesn't mean I will not be including significant amount of our
existing documentation. For example, I would probably include the
'manual' pages at the end of the book, like many computer books.

As far a money, let me mention something. While making $0 with
PostgreSQL (I don't use it in my work, or even at home to store any
data.), I have always offered to put money into the project because I
think it is only fair that the costs be born fairly by the people
involved. I have sent money to support our server, I have offered to
send more in the past, and have offered to host the PostgreSQL Award
around-the-world tour by including checks to pay for every leg of the
trip. I have done other monetary gifts for PostgreSQL.

So, if there need for some money for PostgreSQL, let me know. With or
without the book, I am always interested in helping.

Once I talk to everyone, I will be saying more.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] The new globe
In-Reply-To: <m11bld5-0003kLC@orion.SAPserv.Hamburg.dsh.de> from Jan Wieck at
"Oct 14, 1999 04:13:15 pm"
To: Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
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Yes, please folks, let's send him the updates.

Just uploaded the latest version. You need a Shift+Reload to
get the latest image corresponding to the map. I polished it
up a little, filled water into some lakes and added some text
to the lower half.

Added are:

Oleg Bartunov,
Byron Nikolaidis (just the pin) and
Lamar Owen.

Now the east coast is more packed - just like europe. :-)

In the text section I've added another cathegory "Non-code
contributors". That's where I added Oleg.

I think you can put Vince there too. I removed the section because only
Vince was there in the past.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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Well Henery, the collaborative book idea is dead.
But, here are my comments anyway. BTW, I didn't
get your e-mail... is there a "docs" list and not
a "pgsql-docs" list? If so, where are the archives?

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Henery B. Hotz wrote:

Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
against these components. Right now, for instance,
you have a book-outline project which people are
working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
Then, as people track their time against these
sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
of their hours.

The way this is normally done is to do a page or word count
of the finished product. Each author owns a "chapter". The
editor negotiates with the publisher and takes a cut off
the top. Counting time is a bad idea IMHO.
Too much uncertainty and inequity.

I don't believe this is the case at all. For two reasons:

1. When someone decides they want to contribute, their hours
can be multipled by a factor commensurate with their
relevant expeience. This multiplier can be wrong at first,
but as the project moves along, the owner of the contract will
have insentive to "promote" the multiplier for those who have
really demonstrated that they are valid contributors.
This will work out organically... besides most people will
be very honest and submit a multiplier commensurate with their
experience. The (nonexistent?) few that don't will be quickly
identified... it really isn't all that hard.

2. If someone logs a ton of hours and tries to get them approved,
the contract owner would have a good laugh and simply deny the
hours. I doubt this would happen in reality; in fact you might
have the opposite problem -- people not turning in an adequate
reflection of the time they have spent.

As for counting words or basing it on chapters -- this really limits
the ability of the vast number of contributers to feel like they
are a part of the process. A tiny, but juicy kernel of wisdom is
worth a ton.

Pity nobody want's to do it. Oh well. We all have such
little faith in other people. Damn shame.

Clark

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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If its a group project, I assume you are the "owner"
of the "uber-contract" until it sells to a book
publisher. To do this right, you would divide
this contract into small peices, or sub-contracts.
Then, as people contribute, their time is tracked
against these components. Right now, for instance,
you have a book-outline project which people are
working on; it could be decided that the book-outline
sub contract is worth ".5%" of the book ownership.
Then, as people track their time against these
sub-contracts, a summary (once a week) is presented
to you (the owner of the contract) for approval
of their hours. If approved, then the contributer

The way this is normally done is to do a page or word count of the finished
product. Each author owns a "chapter". The editor negotiates with the
publisher and takes a cut off the top. Counting time is a bad idea IMHO.
Too much uncertainty and inequity.

Of course in this case there is a lot of pre-existing text which makes
counting pages hard. Is there any way we can make this whole thing owned
by postgresql.org and just use the proceeds for the project? I haven't
been tracking the legal status.

The first two chapters are Intro/History, like the one I wrote for the
BSD magazine, and chapter 2 is using psql, which is all new.

We really don't have much hand-holding stuff. Chapters 1-4 are going to
be all new. The later chapters may use some existing stuff.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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To: "'Aaron J. Seigo'" <aaron@gtv.ca>, "'pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org'"
<pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org>, "'pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org'"
<pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres
user's password?
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:37:20 +0200
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I am not that paranoid...
Maybe the balance between paranoia and "administrability" is important too. That's why the security thread is important on this Postgres mailing-lists. And the proposed TODO too.
Side note : I'll check the security portal...

-----Message d'origine-----
De: Aaron J. Seigo [SMTP:aaron@gtv.ca]
Date: jeudi 14 octobre 1999 19:11
��: Nicolas Huillard; 'Oleg Bartunov'; 'Peter Eisentraut'
Cc: 'Lincoln Yeoh'; 'pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org'; 'pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org'
Objet: RE: [HACKERS] Re: [GENERAL] How do I activate and change the postgres user's password?

hi..

* there is still a problem for the access to the database themselves : site
1 should access database 1, and not database 2, but there should have the
least password in the calling scripts

I already posted a message concerning security, but nobody seems to be
concerned about this. I read the advices at www.cert.org, and since then, I
became paranoiac...

there are MUCH better security sites/sources than CERT. e.g. security portal.

--
Aaron J. Seigo
Sys Admin

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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Bruce,

On the slim chance that you may change your mind,
I've decided to address some of your points.

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Well, I don't think a "group-written" book is going to read very well.

You already started one. It hardly looks like a "solo"
project to me. There is _nothing_ saying that it has to be
design-by-committee.

In fact, I assumed that you would run the book as a
"dictatorship" where you keep complete artistic
control over every element... including the voice.

There is a ton other people can do... think:

"What can I delegate".

It will bring you amazing power -- you might end up owning only
40% of the book.... however, the book will be 1000% better
and sell thousands more copies.

Everyone has a different style, and a mis-mash of writing
styles in a book will not work.

Compare to: Everyone has a different style, a mis-match of
programming styles in a computer program will not work.

Answer: Modulize, design your book so that this will
be a non-issue. 1/2 of the book will be dreaming
up and presenting 'cool' examples. The little bit
of text that is in a personal voice can be re-written.

It also will take too long to produce a book in that way.

Compare to: It will take too long to make a computer program that way.

Answer: Once the outline is made; and the project is broken
down into modules much of it can be done in parallel.
Debugging can also be done in parallel (as Eric Raymond
so clearly writes). So what if a complete re-write
is needed at the end: Plan to throw one away.

The book will be available via the Web and in PDF format even before it
is completed. (I am writing it using LyX/LaTeX). I have written the
first two chapters, and will be putting them out for everyone to read

comment, debug, suggest improvements on, revise, help with,

and use very soon.

Yes, I know. You want to leverage the collaborative PostgreSQL
community process when every possible. Amazing how well it works!

This book project will clearly be a win for all
PostgreSQL users, whether they buy the book or not.

This much is true, but it's not the issue.

That doesn't mean I will not be including significant amount of our
existing documentation. For example, I would probably include the
'manual' pages at the end of the book, like many computer books.

They are seveal hundred pages and will be a great
resource when writing the book -- they must have taken
hundreds of hours to generate. I doubt that they
would be all that useful verbadim at the end of the book.

As far a money, let me mention something. While making $0 with
PostgreSQL (I don't use it in my work, or even at home to store any
data.), I have always offered to put money into the project because I
think it is only fair that the costs be born fairly by the people
involved. I have sent money to support our server, I have offered to
send more in the past, and have offered to host the PostgreSQL Award
around-the-world tour by including checks to pay for every leg of the
trip. I have done other monetary gifts for PostgreSQL.

Yes, I know. Most committed free software developers are in a similar
boat and I wish there was a more equitable way of developing software
like PostgreSQL.

So, if there need for some money for PostgreSQL, let me know. With or
without the book, I am always interested in helping.

Bruce, I'm not questioning your integrety; if anything it should be
the other way around as I am not a significant contributor and
as an 'familar outsider' really don't have the right to question
your actions. Infact, I admire you a TON and that's why I'm
spending _my_ time authoring this e-mail.

...

Please understand. I'm suggesting an alternative way of doing
things; that maybye, just mabye could turn out to be bigger and
more useful than expected. Consider this as a "small project"
to see if the members of PostgreSQL community can deliver as
a cohesive unit; not as an individual.

If an accountable process like this were to work for a book --
then I would bet solid money that it would work for
application software development for profit. And this,
being able to generate a profit should be the goal that we
as a community should be striving for.

...

Imagine the book titled:
"PostgreSQL: The Definitive Guide, by Bruce Momjian"

Now imagine you going into Crysler corporation trying to
bid on a production control system. Do you think you
will get it with the Oracle representative right next to you?

Imagine instead the book titled:

"PostgreSQL: The Definitive Guide
A collaborative work by the PostgreSQL Community,
Edited by Bruce Momjian"

Put yourself back in the board room at Crysler with
Oracle sales person next to you. Do you think you
are in a better position? I think so. The first book
says you are a lone wolf. The second one shows
you are a leader. It also demonstrates all too clearly
that you an muster the entire PostgreSQL community
behind you, ready to deliver on your promises.

That is way powerful. Far more powerful than the
lone wolf approach chosen by Larry Wall.

...

So, you mentioned the $ word. Is this about $? Yes.
However, it is not about the immediate money nor about
your right to profit from PostgreSQL. It is about a
key juncture for the PostgreSQL community; we can either
fragment off as individuals... going Solo. Or,
we can develop a business model that lets us move
together as a community. Oracle isn't scared about
the first one. Its petrified about the second.

Best Wishes,

Clark

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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from "Clark C. Evans" at "Oct 14, 1999 02:12:33 pm"
To: "Clark C. Evans" <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 15:34:39 -0400 (EDT)
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2. If someone logs a ton of hours and tries to get them approved,
the contract owner would have a good laugh and simply deny the
hours. I doubt this would happen in reality; in fact you might
have the opposite problem -- people not turning in an adequate
reflection of the time they have spent.

As for counting words or basing it on chapters -- this really limits
the ability of the vast number of contributers to feel like they
are a part of the process. A tiny, but juicy kernel of wisdom is
worth a ton.

Pity nobody want's to do it. Oh well. We all have such
little faith in other people. Damn shame.

I guess I figured that if we were going to do a collaborative book, we
would have done that with our documentation already. But in fact, it
usually takes one person and lots of time. In our current Doc's case,
it is Thomas.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910141935.PAA27958@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910141349550.9528-100000@distributedsystems.com>
from "Clark C. Evans" at "Oct 14, 1999 01:51:16 pm"
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Thanks Bruce, just thought that I'd put in
the suggestion. I'm sure with your experience
it will be a fantastic book!

It was a good suggestion. I just don't think writing scales to many
people very well.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I guess I figured that if we were going to do a collaborative book, we
would have done that with our documentation already.

Seveal Reasons:

(a) we didn't have the goal to write a book for profit, (b) we didn't
have a business model, (c) we didn't have a leader.

Seems we have all three now:

(a) Lots of people seem to have latched on to the goal, and it is
apparant that there is significant demand. (b) The business model
is there, it may not be perfect, but we can nail that down once we
have experience. Everyone I've met in PostgreSQL is resonable;
the inital agreement will be loose, as the book progresses the
agreement can be tightened down as needed. (c) We have a *sweet*
leader, Bruce Momjian, he has proven to be on top of things -- a
man with not only great vision, but the drive to make things tick.

Are you ready to delegate?

Clark

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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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My apologies.

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

IMHO, if you feel that you need to continue along this vein, please take
it offlist and with Bruce privately...if someone else wishes to put the
time, effort and "risk of maritial status" up on the block and work on a
collaborative effort, so be it...but I personally am getting a major
distaste in my mouth from watching you trying to pressure Bruce into a
direction that he has already stated no desire to go. If ppl don't like
that, fine...don't buy the book when its done. Personally, I know where
my book buying dollars are going when the time comes...

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cc: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>,
"Henry B. Hotz" <hotz@jpl.nasa.gov>,
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Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Clark C. Evans wrote:

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I guess I figured that if we were going to do a collaborative book, we
would have done that with our documentation already.

Seveal Reasons:

(a) we didn't have the goal to write a book for profit, (b) we didn't
have a business model, (c) we didn't have a leader.

Seems we have all three now:

(a) Lots of people seem to have latched on to the goal, and it is
apparant that there is significant demand. (b) The business model
is there, it may not be perfect, but we can nail that down once we
have experience. Everyone I've met in PostgreSQL is resonable;
the inital agreement will be loose, as the book progresses the
agreement can be tightened down as needed. (c) We have a *sweet*
leader, Bruce Momjian, he has proven to be on top of things -- a
man with not only great vision, but the drive to make things tick.

Are you ready to delegate?

Delegate what? Bruce is doing this as a solo project, what would he need
to delegate? *confused look* Now, the way I see it, he *could* have gone
off and written the book withuot letting any of us know about it, and
wihtout asking any of us for input as to how we'd like to see it look...he
didn't.

IMHO, if you feel that you need to continue along this vein, please take
it offlist and with Bruce privately...if someone else wishes to put the
time, effort and "risk of maritial status" up on the block and work on a
collaborative effort, so be it...but I personally am getting a major
distaste in my mouth from watching you trying to pressure Bruce into a
direction that he has already stated no desire to go. If ppl don't like
that, fine...don't buy the book when its done. Personally, I know where
my book buying dollars are going when the time comes...

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

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Message-Id: <199910142142.RAA04062@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [DOCS] Business Plan for PostgreSQL book?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910141621280.9528-100000@distributedsystems.com>
from "Clark C. Evans" at "Oct 14, 1999 04:23:24 pm"
To: "Clark C. Evans" <clark.evans@manhattanproject.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 17:42:35 -0400 (EDT)
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My apologies.

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

IMHO, if you feel that you need to continue along this vein, please take
it offlist and with Bruce privately...if someone else wishes to put the
time, effort and "risk of maritial status" up on the block and work on a
collaborative effort, so be it...but I personally am getting a major
distaste in my mouth from watching you trying to pressure Bruce into a
direction that he has already stated no desire to go. If ppl don't like
that, fine...don't buy the book when its done. Personally, I know where
my book buying dollars are going when the time comes...

Thomas mentioned that I need to request more than 20 free copies from
the publisher. I will either get more for free, or pay for them myself
and have them delivered to the main devlopers.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910142203.SAA05343@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: TAB doesn't work in psql
To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:03:07 -0400 (EDT)
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I can't tab anymore in psql:

test=> CREATE TABLE friends (
test->
Display all 161 possibilities? (y or n)

What is this. Looks like readline is assuming my tab means 'tab
completion'. I don't have a problem with tab completion, but I like to
use tab when typing queries to indent my SQL.

When did this happen?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:31:34 PDT
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Mascari <mascarim@yahoo.com>
Subject: ORACLE COMMENT statement
To: maillist@candle.pha.pa.us
Cc: peter_e@gmx.net, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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Hello Bruce,

I've just submitted a patch to the patches list which
implements Oracle's COMMENT statement. It will
insert/update/delete the appropriate OID for the
table or column targeted for the comment. It should
apply cleanly against current. If it passes your
scrutiny, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. Might it be possible for psql
(a.k.a Peter Eisentraut) to display the comments
associated with tables, views, and columns in
its \d output? Or perhaps another \ command?

2. Should I write up SGML for it (as well as for
TRUNCATE TABLE)?

3. Should I expand it beyond ORACLE's syntax to
include functions, types, triggers, rules, etc.?

On the TODO list its listed as:

Allow pg_descriptions when creating types, tables,
columns, and functions

Anyways,

Hope its worth something,

Mike Mascari
(mascarim@yahoo.com)

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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To: SAKAIDA <sakaida@psn.co.jp>
cc: hackers@postgreSQL.org, pgsql-interfaces@postgreSQL.org
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This works like a charm. Thanks tons!

;) Clark

On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, SAKAIDA wrote:

Hi,

With many cooperators, I have made a *bash built-in command* for
PostgreSQL called "pgbash".

The pgbash is the system which offers the 'direct SQL'/'embedded
SQL' interface for PostgreSQL by being included in the bash-2.x
shell.

Features of pgbash
-------------------

1.The pgbash has a function which is equivalent to psql except for
the interactive input processing function.

2.It is possible that pgbash carries out the interactive input
processing using the hysteresis editing function ( history, !,
fc command ) of bash.

3.An output of retrieval result and database information of pgbash
uses PSprint() which improved PQprint(). By PSprint(), it is
possible to output by plain table type, plain table + outer frame
type and HTML table type. And, it is possible to display NULL
value string(like '-NULL-') and bit zero string(like '-0-').

4.It is possible that pgbash manipulates multiple databases using
CONNECT, DISCONNECT and SET CONNECTION (or -d option ).

5.The pgbash has a function which substitutes the retrieval result
for the shell variable using FETCH INTO statement.

6.It is possible to set CGI mode. In CGI mode, the pgbash switches
the output to HTML, and read the datat by GET/POST method, and
read the data of HTTP_COOKIE.

7.The pgbash sets "error code", "error message", "number of tuples",
etc to the shell variable. Therefore, it is possible to know the
condition after the SQL execution.

Details is as follows.
http://www.psn.co.jp/PostgreSQL/pgbash/index-e.html

# I am very glad, if many people will use the pgbash.

--
Regards.

SAKAIDA Masaaki -- Osaka, Japan$B!!(B
# Sorry, I am not good at English.

************

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910150154.VAA11206@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: ORACLE COMMENT statement
In-Reply-To: <19991015013134.841.rocketmail@web2101.mail.yahoo.com> from Mike
Mascari at "Oct 14, 1999 06:31:34 pm"
To: Mike Mascari <mascarim@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:54:16 -0400 (EDT)
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Hello Bruce,

I've just submitted a patch to the patches list which
implements Oracle's COMMENT statement. It will
insert/update/delete the appropriate OID for the
table or column targeted for the comment. It should
apply cleanly against current. If it passes your
scrutiny, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. Might it be possible for psql
(a.k.a Peter Eisentraut) to display the comments
associated with tables, views, and columns in
its \d output? Or perhaps another \ command?

Sure. \dd does that already.

2. Should I write up SGML for it (as well as for
TRUNCATE TABLE)?

I did that for Truncate. You can see it in the docs. If you want to
write on on this, that would be good. It seems more complex.

3. Should I expand it beyond ORACLE's syntax to
include functions, types, triggers, rules, etc.?

Sure, why not. \dd already handles it.

On the TODO list its listed as:

Allow pg_descriptions when creating types, tables,
columns, and functions

Yep. Removed the 'table' entry, and marked it as done.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910150237.WAA11987@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Why I am writing a book
To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 22:37:03 -0400 (EDT)
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Why am I writing a book?

Well, when someone close to an open-source project considers a book deal
with a publisher, people have a right to ask.

Basically, I am not doing for the money. If I was interested in only
money, I wouldn't have got involved with PostgreSQL years ago.

I am doing it because I think it will help PostgreSQL, I enjoy writing,
my wife and boss think it is a good idea, and because it will be neat to
get my name on a book. Of course, I will get as many other names as
possible in there. Marc, Thomas, Jolly Chen, Andrew Yu, and Stonebraker
are already mentioned in my first chapter. There are many more pages to
go.

However, the book is going to take time, and because I work on 100%
commission, I must make up some of my lost wages while working on the
book. A publisher allows me to do that.

I have talked to Marc, Thomas Lockhart, and Tom Lane today by telephone,
and they all said OK. I haven't made any final decisions yet, but I am
getting close. If people have concerns about this, I would like to hear
them.

To summarize, this book is a for first-time database users, so newbies
can get started with PostgreSQL. It will have topics on our advanced
features, but it will be a compliment to our fine documentation Thomas
Lockhart has put together, not a replacement.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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You might want to include into the installation instructions (or whereever
it will end up) that GNU bison 1.25 is required. (right after the flex
stuff)

We haven't been careful about building and shipping the bison output
in the tarball distribution, as we have for the main parser.

Huh? src/tools/release_prep automatically builds both the main parser
and ecpg bison output files. Is there other stuff it should be
handling too?

afaik some of Jan's language stuff uses yacc also...

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

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(on list; interesting topic)

Tom, I'm looking at an oracle script and seeing something I haven't seen
before. Is this something oracle specific? Can Postgres do it?
CREATE OR REPLACE procedure inc_char_for_sort_key (old_char IN OUT CHAR,
carry_p OUT INTEGER)
It goes on, but it's the CREATE OR REPLACE part that I'm interested in.

That's interesting. In our case, you would do a "drop function" and
then the "create function" as a two step process. Oracle simplifies it
a bit for you. I'm not sure why we throw an error if you drop a
function which does not exist, since that makes it tough to blindly do
the "drop/create" pair. Why don't we just signal a warning or notice
instead?

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910150450.AAA15676@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: int8 type
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Psql \dT shows int8 as > 18 digits. As far as I can tell, int8 is ~700
digits in precision, right?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Never mind. My use of 'calc' is wrong.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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it would be good idea to enable "empty automatic insert" like this:
mydb => create table pgx_replid ( repltime time DEFAULT current_time );
mydb => insert into pgx_replid;
the above should insert the value of current_time into database pgx_replid, however it is
impossible yet (ver.6.3.x / 6.5.2).

Not true :)

We support the SQL92-standard syntax:

mydb => insert into pgx_replid default values;

Have fun with it...

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

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Hello,

Did you add your pg libraries path into /etc/ld.so.conf
(/usr/local/postgres/libs is mine) and run ldconfig?

I searched the whole tree from / for ld.so.conf but did not find one.

--
Carsten Huettl - <http://www.ahorn-Net.de>
pgp-key on request

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Okay, I have the following voting results:
2 for pgcreatedb, pgdropdb, pgcreateuser, pgdropuser (Bruce, me)
1 for pg_createdb, pg_dropdb, etc. (Sergio K.)
1/2 for pgadduser, etc., or sth. like that (Marc)
1/2 for leave as is (Thomas)
1 for drop altogether (Marc)

I vote with Thomas - leave as is. But I don't understand the tallying.
Did Thomas shrink so as to only get a halfa vote? :)

He didn't make his opinion exactly clear, except that the underscores are
a sign of the coming apocalypse. (If you ask Marc, he can probably give
you an alternate theory here...)

OK, let me be clear. imho there is no strong consensus on this, which
would lead us toward *leave it as it is*! I'll put Marc (motto: "no
wusses!") on the lunatic fringe for suggesting that we drop all user
conveniences, but istm that we are solving a problem which isn't a
problem. And we are changing the user interface which has been in
place for (at least) the last three years based on no documented name
space conflict and no widely reported problems from users.

I can see how some might want some clearer way to figure out available
postgres command-line commands using ls and grep. If so, prepending
"pg" will help, but forget the underscores and convince more of us
that it is necessary, please. Why should a regular user have to type
the extra two characters anyway? Should we mention in the v7.0 release
notes that we are now "carpal tunnel hostile"??

Hmm, I guess that does it. pg_createdb and symlinks for one release with
warnings for deprecated forms.

ack!

Perhaps we should really change the installation instructions to not make
mention of the scripts, though, to enforce proper learning. But you were
working on that anyway, right?

sigh. We should get rid of all of the other language interfaces too;
any real programmer can do it with psql and bash. Hmm, maybe even psql
is a luxury ;)

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

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2. Should I write up SGML for it (as well as for
TRUNCATE TABLE)?

Yes (though TRUNCATE TABLE has something already in
ref/truncate.sgml).

- Thomas

--
Thomas Lockhart lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I can't tab anymore in psql:

test=> CREATE TABLE friends (
test->
Display all 161 possibilities? (y or n)

What is this. Looks like readline is assuming my tab means 'tab
completion'. I don't have a problem with tab completion, but I like to
use tab when typing queries to indent my SQL.

When did this happen?

Last time you messed with your .inputrc maybe??? I have always known it
this way. I have made M-Tab to be insert-tab, it's not configured this way
by default.

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Topic dropped.

But users should be made aware that all createdb does is call psql and the
create database SQL statement, so they see how it fits together. But I
think I have to agree with your general point here.

-Peter

On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Thomas Lockhart wrote:

Okay, I have the following voting results:
2 for pgcreatedb, pgdropdb, pgcreateuser, pgdropuser (Bruce, me)
1 for pg_createdb, pg_dropdb, etc. (Sergio K.)
1/2 for pgadduser, etc., or sth. like that (Marc)
1/2 for leave as is (Thomas)
1 for drop altogether (Marc)

I vote with Thomas - leave as is. But I don't understand the tallying.
Did Thomas shrink so as to only get a halfa vote? :)

He didn't make his opinion exactly clear, except that the underscores are
a sign of the coming apocalypse. (If you ask Marc, he can probably give
you an alternate theory here...)

OK, let me be clear. imho there is no strong consensus on this, which
would lead us toward *leave it as it is*! I'll put Marc (motto: "no
wusses!") on the lunatic fringe for suggesting that we drop all user
conveniences, but istm that we are solving a problem which isn't a
problem. And we are changing the user interface which has been in
place for (at least) the last three years based on no documented name
space conflict and no widely reported problems from users.

I can see how some might want some clearer way to figure out available
postgres command-line commands using ls and grep. If so, prepending
"pg" will help, but forget the underscores and convince more of us
that it is necessary, please. Why should a regular user have to type
the extra two characters anyway? Should we mention in the v7.0 release
notes that we are now "carpal tunnel hostile"??

Hmm, I guess that does it. pg_createdb and symlinks for one release with
warnings for deprecated forms.

ack!

Perhaps we should really change the installation instructions to not make
mention of the scripts, though, to enforce proper learning. But you were
working on that anyway, right?

sigh. We should get rid of all of the other language interfaces too;
any real programmer can do it with psql and bash. Hmm, maybe even psql
is a luxury ;)

- Thomas

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] bison
To: lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu (Thomas Lockhart)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:18:24 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us, peter_e@gmx.net, pgsql-docs@postgreSQL.org,
pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <3806AE9C.929B5F2A@alumni.caltech.edu> from "Thomas Lockhart" at
Oct 15, 99 04:33:32 am
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You might want to include into the installation instructions (or whereever
it will end up) that GNU bison 1.25 is required. (right after the flex
stuff)

We haven't been careful about building and shipping the bison output
in the tarball distribution, as we have for the main parser.

Huh? src/tools/release_prep automatically builds both the main parser
and ecpg bison output files. Is there other stuff it should be
handling too?

afaik some of Jan's language stuff uses yacc also...

Yepp - PL/pgSQL has it's own scanner/parser (i.e.
flex/bison). The tricky part in this case is that the
languages object file will be loaded at runtime into the
backend, where the main scanner/parser is already present.
Thus I'm mangling with sed(1) over the generated sources to
avoid global symbol conflicts.

Jan

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CC: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>,
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Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
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Peter Eisentraut wrote:

Topic dropped.

But users should be made aware that all createdb does is call psql and the
create database SQL statement, so they see how it fits together. But I
think I have to agree with your general point here.

Maybe it should just echo out the commands given through psql, unless
some switch (like -s for silent) is given ?

-----------------
Hannu

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From: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
To: lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu (Thomas Lockhart)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:28:27 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: peter_e@gmx.net, vev@michvhf.com, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <3806BA8B.32114872@alumni.caltech.edu> from "Thomas Lockhart" at
Oct 15, 99 05:24:27 am
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Perhaps we should really change the installation instructions to not make
mention of the scripts, though, to enforce proper learning. But you were
working on that anyway, right?

sigh. We should get rid of all of the other language interfaces too;
any real programmer can do it with psql and bash. Hmm, maybe even psql
is a luxury ;)

Real programmers don't use a database at all. If they can,
they even avoid using a filesystem or any other help of an
OS, because they love to know exactly where their data is
left.

Jan

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:49:27 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <e99re41@DoCS.UU.SE>
Reply-To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
cc: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>,
pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

Perhaps we should really change the installation instructions to not make
mention of the scripts, though, to enforce proper learning. But you were
working on that anyway, right?

sigh. We should get rid of all of the other language interfaces too;
any real programmer can do it with psql and bash. Hmm, maybe even psql
is a luxury ;)

Real programmers don't use a database at all. If they can,
they even avoid using a filesystem or any other help of an
OS, because they love to know exactly where their data is
left.

You use an OS?

Okay, people, let's cut the crap. It wasn't my idea. Someone asked about
it and Bruce said something to the effect that this was something that you
wanted to do anyway. So I asked around for a vote and got a result. I
couldn't guess that this could cause so much heartbreak with some people.
Let's forget about it and let people use whatever tool (with whatever
name) they damn well want.

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:10:52 +0200
From: Sascha Schumann <sascha@schumann.cx>
To: "Carsten Huettl" <CHUETTL@ahorn.sgh.uunet.de>
Cc: Hitesh Patel <hitesh@presys.com>, pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org
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On Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 06:21:11AM +0100, Carsten Huettl wrote:

Hello,

Did you add your pg libraries path into /etc/ld.so.conf
(/usr/local/postgres/libs is mine) and run ldconfig?

I searched the whole tree from / for ld.so.conf but did not find one.

Add the path in /etc/rc.conf to ldconfig_paths. Then reboot.

Regards,

Sascha Schumann
Consultant

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From: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: Scripts (was Re: [HACKERS] Re: [INTERFACES] Next release is
7.0(?))
To: lamar.owen@wgcr.org (Lamar Owen)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 13:54:11 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: maillist@candle.pha.pa.us, peter_e@gmx.net, lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu,
ser@perio.unlp.edu.ar, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org,
pgsql-interfaces@postgreSQL.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <38026BE1.2599C93C@wgcr.org> from "Lamar Owen" at Oct 11,
99 06:59:45 pm
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Lamar Owen wrote:

Bruce Momjian wrote:

createlang --> (In my excessively undereducated opinion, this should
be removed. createdb and createuser I can see but
this?)

Yes, remove. What is that doing there. Jan's plpgsql doesn't use it. :-)

Used by regression test script. No reason the script can't inline the
createlang script's code, though.

That script was the result of some longer discussion about
"installing PL/pgSQL by default (initdb) or not" which
resulted from some problems with the location of the language
handler object.

Some people like to have one or the other language in
template1, so it will automatically be there after createdb.
Others like to install individual PL's per database.

What I see from your comments above is, that you don't use
procedural languages at all. But that's not a good reason for
making it harder for others to gain access to these
languages.

Jan

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:07:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>
cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>,
pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Scripts again
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Thomas Lockhart wrote:

Okay, I have the following voting results:
2 for pgcreatedb, pgdropdb, pgcreateuser, pgdropuser (Bruce, me)
1 for pg_createdb, pg_dropdb, etc. (Sergio K.)
1/2 for pgadduser, etc., or sth. like that (Marc)
1/2 for leave as is (Thomas)
1 for drop altogether (Marc)

I vote with Thomas - leave as is. But I don't understand the tallying.
Did Thomas shrink so as to only get a halfa vote? :)

He didn't make his opinion exactly clear, except that the underscores are
a sign of the coming apocalypse. (If you ask Marc, he can probably give
you an alternate theory here...)

OK, let me be clear. imho there is no strong consensus on this, which
would lead us toward *leave it as it is*! I'll put Marc (motto: "no
wusses!") on the lunatic fringe for suggesting that we drop all user
conveniences, but istm that we are solving a problem which isn't a
problem. And we are changing the user interface which has been in
place for (at least) the last three years based on no documented name
space conflict and no widely reported problems from users.

Hear hear!!

Perhaps we should really change the installation instructions to not make
mention of the scripts, though, to enforce proper learning. But you were
working on that anyway, right?

sigh. We should get rid of all of the other language interfaces too;
any real programmer can do it with psql and bash. Hmm, maybe even psql
is a luxury ;)

Hrmmmmm...there's a thought, but doesn't that sort of negate your above?
:)

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:11:04 +0200
From: Michael Meskes <meskes@postgreSQL.org>
To: Jan Wieck <wieck@debis.com>
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] The new globe
Message-ID: <19991015151104.A683@fam-meskes.de>
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On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 11:20:15PM +0200, Jan Wieck wrote:

Hmmm - the address in the graphic, the one in the text and
the mailto: hyperlink on it are all the same:
<meskes@postgresql.org> - or do I need new glasses?

I get meskes@topsystem.de if I go over my place in the graphic.

o the complete name, maybe title (if they want) and
location (like {in|near} Hamburg, Germany). For
locations usually unknown in the world (like Harsefeld in
my case) we use a bigger town close to that and say near.

Dr. Michael Meskes, near Dusseldorf.

o the LAT/LON position of their location so I don't have to
lookup everyone in my maps,

Since I'm already in, do you still need this?

o the correct eMail address,

meskes@postgresql.org

o and most important, the contributions they have made to
PostgreSQL.

Maintaining ecpg since version 0.2.

Michael
--
Michael Meskes | Go SF 49ers!
Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go Rhein Fire!
Tel.: (+49) 2431/72651 | Use Debian GNU/Linux!
Email: Michael@Fam-Meskes.De | Use PostgreSQL!

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From: jim@reptiles.org (Jim Mercer)
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] ld.so failed
To: CHUETTL@ahorn.sgh.uunet.de (Carsten Huettl)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 09:59:09 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: hitesh@presys.com, pgsql-general@postgreSQL.org
In-Reply-To: <111F0F713069@ahorn.sgh.uunet.de> from Carsten Huettl at "Oct 15,
99 06:21:11 am"
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Did you add your pg libraries path into /etc/ld.so.conf
(/usr/local/postgres/libs is mine) and run ldconfig?

I searched the whole tree from / for ld.so.conf but did not find one.

freebsd doesn't really use one.

you can manually add the path with "ldconfig -R /path"

you can make the change permanent by adding the path to the ldconfig parameter
int /etc/rc.conf.

alternately, you can include the ldconfig -R command in your
/usr/local/etc/rc.d/pgsql.sh script, if you have one.

--
[ Jim Mercer Reptilian Research jim@reptiles.org +1 416 410-5633 ]
[ The telephone, for those of you who have forgotten, was a commonly used ]
[ communications technology in the days before electronic mail. ]
[ They're still easy to find in most large cities. -- Nathaniel Borenstein ]

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To: Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu>
cc: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>,
Postgres Hackers List <hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Re: can postgres do this?
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 15 Oct 1999 04:43:13 +0000
<3806B0E1.9458EB35@alumni.caltech.edu>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:13:09 -0400
Message-ID: <1221.939996789@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>

Thomas Lockhart <lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu> writes:

I'm not sure why we throw an error if you drop a
function which does not exist, since that makes it tough to blindly do
the "drop/create" pair. Why don't we just signal a warning or notice
instead?

It doesn't matter unless you are inside a transaction --- but I can
see the value of replacing a function definition inside a transaction.

Perhaps "no such <whatever>" should be downgraded from ERROR to NOTICE
for all DROP-type commands. Another TODO item...

regards, tom lane

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910151423.KAA28682@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] TAB doesn't work in psql
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9910151129090.2978-100000@Pingvin.DoCS.UU.SE>
from
Peter Eisentraut at "Oct 15, 1999 11:30:39 am"
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 10:23:49 -0400 (EDT)
CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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On Thu, 14 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I can't tab anymore in psql:

test=> CREATE TABLE friends (
test->
Display all 161 possibilities? (y or n)

What is this. Looks like readline is assuming my tab means 'tab
completion'. I don't have a problem with tab completion, but I like to
use tab when typing queries to indent my SQL.

When did this happen?

Last time you messed with your .inputrc maybe??? I have always known it
this way. I have made M-Tab to be insert-tab, it's not configured this way
by default.

Oh. Got it. I have modified my .inputrc. I guess I just thought it
used to work.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] The new globe
To: meskes@postgreSQL.org (Michael Meskes)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 16:43:40 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: wieck@debis.com, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Reply-To: wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck)
In-Reply-To: <19991015151104.A683@fam-meskes.de> from "Michael Meskes" at Oct
15, 99 03:11:04 pm
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On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 11:20:15PM +0200, Jan Wieck wrote:

Hmmm - the address in the graphic, the one in the text and
the mailto: hyperlink on it are all the same:
<meskes@postgresql.org> - or do I need new glasses?

I get meskes@topsystem.de if I go over my place in the graphic.

You're right - I need nu ones.

o the complete name, maybe title (if they want) and
location (like {in|near} Hamburg, Germany). For
locations usually unknown in the world (like Harsefeld in
my case) we use a bigger town close to that and say near.

Dr. Michael Meskes, near Dusseldorf.

I made it Düsseldorf, or do you insist on Dusseldorf?
:-)

Jan

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CC: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: indexable and locale
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--------------1F34997E51F7296378CEB5C6
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Hello again,
I thought I should start making some small contibutions before 7.0.

Attached is a patch to the old problem discussed feverly before 6.5.
What is does:
for locale-enabled servers:
use index if last char before '%' is ascii.
for non-locale servers:
do not use locale if last char is non-ascii since it is wrong anyway.

Comments?

regards,
--
-----------------
G��ran Thyni
On quiet nights you can hear Windows NT reboot!
--------------1F34997E51F7296378CEB5C6
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name="pg.indexable.diff"
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filename="pg.indexable.diff"

diff -c pgsql/src/backend/optimizer/path/indxpath.c work/pgsql/src/backend/optimizer/path/indxpath.c
*** pgsql/src/backend/optimizer/path/indxpath.c	Wed Oct  6 18:33:57 1999
--- work/pgsql/src/backend/optimizer/path/indxpath.c	Fri Oct 15 19:54:34 1999
***************
*** 1934,1968 ****
  	op = makeOper(optup->t_data->t_oid, InvalidOid, BOOLOID, 0, NULL);
  	expr = make_opclause(op, leftop, (Var *) con);
  	result = lcons(expr, NIL);
- 
  	/*
! 	 * In ASCII locale we say "x <= prefix\377".  This does not
! 	 * work for non-ASCII collation orders, and it's not really
! 	 * right even for ASCII.  FIX ME!
! 	 * Note we assume the passed prefix string is workspace with
! 	 * an extra byte, as created by the xxx_fixed_prefix routines above.
  	 */
! #ifndef USE_LOCALE
! 	prefixlen = strlen(prefix);
! 	prefix[prefixlen] = '\377';
! 	prefix[prefixlen+1] = '\0';
! 
! 	optup = SearchSysCacheTuple(OPRNAME,
! 								PointerGetDatum("<="),
! 								ObjectIdGetDatum(datatype),
! 								ObjectIdGetDatum(datatype),
! 								CharGetDatum('b'));
! 	if (!HeapTupleIsValid(optup))
! 		elog(ERROR, "prefix_quals: no <= operator for type %u", datatype);
! 	conval = (datatype == NAMEOID) ?
! 		(void*) namein(prefix) : (void*) textin(prefix);
! 	con = makeConst(datatype, ((datatype == NAMEOID) ? NAMEDATALEN : -1),
! 					PointerGetDatum(conval),
! 					false, false, false, false);
! 	op = makeOper(optup->t_data->t_oid, InvalidOid, BOOLOID, 0, NULL);
! 	expr = make_opclause(op, leftop, (Var *) con);
! 	result = lappend(result, expr);
! #endif
! 
  	return result;
  }
--- 1934,1970 ----
  	op = makeOper(optup->t_data->t_oid, InvalidOid, BOOLOID, 0, NULL);
  	expr = make_opclause(op, leftop, (Var *) con);
  	result = lcons(expr, NIL);
  	/*
! 	 * If last is in ascii range make it indexable,
! 	 * else let it be.
! 	 * FIXME: find way to use locate for this to support
! 	 *        indexing of non-ascii characters.
  	 */
! 	prefixlen = strlen(prefix) - 1;
! 	elog(DEBUG, "XXX1 %s", prefix);
! 	if ((unsigned) prefix[prefixlen] < 126)
! 	  {
! 	    prefix[prefixlen]++;
! 	    elog(DEBUG, "XXX2 %s", prefix);
! 	    optup = SearchSysCacheTuple(OPRNAME,
! 					PointerGetDatum("<="),
! 					ObjectIdGetDatum(datatype),
! 					ObjectIdGetDatum(datatype),
! 					CharGetDatum('b'));
! 	    if (!HeapTupleIsValid(optup))
! 	      elog(ERROR, "prefix_quals: no <= operator for type %u", datatype);
! 	    conval = (datatype == NAMEOID) ?
! 	      (void*) namein(prefix) : (void*) textin(prefix);
! 	    con = makeConst(datatype, ((datatype == NAMEOID) ? NAMEDATALEN : -1),
! 			    PointerGetDatum(conval),
! 			    false, false, false, false);
! 	    op = makeOper(optup->t_data->t_oid, InvalidOid, BOOLOID, 0, NULL);
! 	    expr = make_opclause(op, leftop, (Var *) con);
! 	    result = lappend(result, expr);
! 	  }
  	return result;
  }

--------------1F34997E51F7296378CEB5C6
Content-Type: application/x-gzip;
name="pg.indexable.diff.gz"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--------------1F34997E51F7296378CEB5C6--

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:10:22 +0200
From: Michael Meskes <meskes@postgreSQL.org>
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On Fri, Oct 15, 1999 at 04:43:40PM +0200, Jan Wieck wrote:

I made it Düsseldorf, or do you insist on Dusseldorf?
:-)

Of course not. But I'd prefer if everyone would know Erkelenz of course. :-)

Michael
--
Michael Meskes | Go SF 49ers!
Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz | Go Rhein Fire!
Tel.: (+49) 2431/72651 | Use Debian GNU/Linux!
Email: Michael@Fam-Meskes.De | Use PostgreSQL!

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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 23:50:25 +0400 (MSD)
From: Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
X-Sender: megera@ra
To: hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: vacuum of permanently updating database
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.SK.991015233006.11898p-100000@ra>
Organization: Sternberg Astronomical Institute (Moscow University)
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I've already posted my question about NOTICE message I'm getting
from vacuum but didn't get any response :-(

Today I decided to do some experiments to reproduce my problem.

I run two independent processes:

1. send parallel requests to apache server in loop. On this request server
does following:

LOCK TABLE hits IN SHARE ROW EXCLUSIVE MODE
UPDATE hits SET count=count+1,last_access=now() WHERE msg_id=1468

2. vacuum table hits in shell scripts

#!/bin/sh
while true ;do
/usr/local/pgsql/bin/psql -tq discovery <vacuum_hits.sql
rc=$?
i=$((i+1))
echo Vaccuming: $i, RC=$rc
sleep 10;
done

where vacuum_hits.sql:

begin work;
drop index hits_pkey;
create unique index hits_pkey on hits(msg_id);
end work;
vacuum analyze hits(msg_id);

Sometimes I get the message:

NOTICE: Index hits_pkey: NUMBER OF INDEX' TUPLES (173) IS NOT THE SAME AS HEAP' (174)

also several times I get:
ERROR: Can't create lock file. Is another vacuum cleaner running?
If not, you may remove the pg_vlock file in the /usr/local/pgsql/data//base/discovery
directory

I had to remove this file by hand.

I understand that experiment is a little bit artificial but I'd like
to know what I'm doing wrong and what's the safest way to vacuum
table which is permanently updating. Actually, I got about
12 requests/sec on my home P166, 64Mb, Linux 2.2.12 - each request is a
plenty of database work. I have to vacuum table because at this rate
I got very quick performance degradation.

This is 6.5.2, Linux

Regards,

Oleg

From bouncefilter Sat Oct 16 16:38:03 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:42:55 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] int8 type
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On Oct 15, Bruce Momjian mentioned:

Psql \dT shows int8 as > 18 digits. As far as I can tell, int8 is ~700
digits in precision, right?

That should probably be = 18 digits. (unless you consider "almost 19" as
"> 18")

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 02:50:16 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Mike Mascari <mascarim@yahoo.com>
cc: maillist@candle.pha.pa.us, pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: ORACLE COMMENT statement
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On Oct 14, Mike Mascari mentioned:

1. Might it be possible for psql
(a.k.a Peter Eisentraut) to display the comments
associated with tables, views, and columns in
its \d output? Or perhaps another \ command?

I was sort of sitting in the holes for the below TODO to get finished. I
was thinking about the \d output as well, perhaps one could switch it on
and off somewhere. I'll see what I can do.

Allow pg_descriptions when creating types, tables,
columns, and functions

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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From: "Hiroshi Inoue" <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: "Oleg Bartunov" <oleg@sai.msu.su>
Cc: <hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] vacuum of permanently updating database
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:06:36 +0900
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Importance: Normal

Could you try the current tree ?

As far as I see,there are 2 possibilities.

1. Relation cache invalidation mechanism is much improved
by Tom in the current tree.
In your case,index tuples may be inserted into invalid index
relation and vanish.

2. If vacuum aborts after the internal commit,the transaction
status is changed to be ABORT. This causes inconsistency.
I have changed not to do so in the current tree.

In CURRENT tree,you may have to change vacuum_hits.sql
as follows.

drop index hits_pkey;
vacuum analyze hits(msg_id);
create unique index hits_pkey on hits(msg_id);

Probably DROP INDEX couldn't be executed inside transactions.

Regards.

Hiroshi Inoue
Inoue@tpf.co.jp

I've already posted my question about NOTICE message I'm getting
from vacuum but didn't get any response :-(

Today I decided to do some experiments to reproduce my problem.

I run two independent processes:

1. send parallel requests to apache server in loop. On this request server
does following:

LOCK TABLE hits IN SHARE ROW EXCLUSIVE MODE
UPDATE hits SET count=count+1,last_access=now() WHERE msg_id=1468

2. vacuum table hits in shell scripts

#!/bin/sh
while true ;do
/usr/local/pgsql/bin/psql -tq discovery <vacuum_hits.sql
rc=$?
i=$((i+1))
echo Vaccuming: $i, RC=$rc
sleep 10;
done

where vacuum_hits.sql:

begin work;
drop index hits_pkey;
create unique index hits_pkey on hits(msg_id);
end work;
vacuum analyze hits(msg_id);

Sometimes I get the message:

NOTICE: Index hits_pkey: NUMBER OF INDEX' TUPLES (173) IS NOT
THE SAME AS HEAP' (174)

also several times I get:
ERROR: Can't create lock file. Is another vacuum cleaner running?
If not, you may remove the pg_vlock file in the
/usr/local/pgsql/data//base/discovery
directory

I had to remove this file by hand.

I understand that experiment is a little bit artificial but I'd like
to know what I'm doing wrong and what's the safest way to vacuum
table which is permanently updating. Actually, I got about
12 requests/sec on my home P166, 64Mb, Linux 2.2.12 - each request is a
plenty of database work. I have to vacuum table because at this rate
I got very quick performance degradation.

This is 6.5.2, Linux

Regards,

Oleg

_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

************

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To: Goran Thyni <goran@kirra.net>
cc: PostgreSQL-development <hackers@postgreSQL.org>,
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] indexable and locale
From: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Reply-To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 15 Oct 1999 20:10:43 +0200.
<38076E23.DF48EB24@kirra.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:00:34 +0900
Sender: t-ishii@ext16.sra.co.jp

Hello again,
I thought I should start making some small contibutions before 7.0.

Attached is a patch to the old problem discussed feverly before 6.5.
What is does:
for locale-enabled servers:
use index if last char before '%' is ascii.
for non-locale servers:
do not use locale if last char is non-ascii since it is wrong anyway.

Comments?

I tried your patches but it seems malformed:

patch: **** unexpected end of file in patch

So this is a guess from reading them. I think your pacthes break
non-ascii multi-byte character sets data and should be surrounded by
#ifdef LOCALE rather than replacing current codes surrounded by
#ifndef LOCALE.
---
Tatsuo Ishii

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Subject: Tr: Functions documentations
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:30:56 +1100
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-----Message d'origine-----
De : St��phane FILLON <fillons@offratel.nc>
�� : pgsql-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Date : samedi 16 octobre 1999 17:30
Objet : Functions documentations

Hi !!

I am looking for a complete list of functions we have under PostgreSQL.

Where can I found this documentation ?

If there is no documentation, I would be please to write one with samples.
In this case, send me your
experience with source for each functions you have try at my direct e-mail.
And I will update this
documentation weekly.

PS: For my personnal use, I have already make a small CookBook of

PostgreSQL

(100 pages) with
lots of samples I have found reading the mailing-list and my own

experience.

Regards,

Stephane FILLON.

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To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
cc: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Different BLKSZ
From: Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp>
Reply-To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:27:30 -0400.
<16363.939738450@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:27:16 +0900
Sender: t-ishii@ext16.sra.co.jp

Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp> writes:

While doing some tests, I have encountered too many problems with
incompatible BLKSZ (the backend comipled in different BLKSZ with the
one in database). I know this is my fault, but it would be nice if
there is better way to avoid this kind of disaster.

I think this is a fine idea, but BLKSZ is not the only critical
parameter that should be verified at startup. RELSEG_SIZE is
also critical and should be checked the same way. Are there any
other configuration variables that affect database layout? I can't
think of any offhand, but maybe someone else can.

I have committed changes for RELSEG_SIZE too. initdb required.
---
Tatsuo Ishii

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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 15:01:02 +0200 (CEST)
From: Zakkr <zakkr@zf.jcu.cz>
To: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: to_char(), md5() (long)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991016141339.17812A-100000@ara.zf.jcu.cz>
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Hi hackers,

1) I programming to_char() routine (inspire with oracle, and with good
advice from Thomas L.) Current version is on
ftp://ftp2.zf.jcu.cz/users/zakkr/pg/ora_func.tar.gz,

(In future I want implement more (oracle compatible routines (to_date,
to_number.. and more)..)

2) I have comlete imlementation of MD5 routine for PqSQL
(ftp://ftp2.zf.jcu.cz/users/zakkr/pg/md5.tar.gz). As base for source code
is used code from Debian md5sum. In Debian is this code distributed
_without_ some restriction under GPL. Is any problem add this code
(if we want) to PgSQL contrib?

(If it is not problem I can try make more routines based on md5
(aggregate func. - md5_count() ...etc)).

I enclose description for the current version of to_char(). Please, send me
any commets..

Zakkr

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TO_CHAR(datetime, text)

* now is not supported:
- spelled-out SP suffix
- AM/PM
- ...and not supported number to character converting
TO_CHAR(number, 'format')

* now is supported:

suffixes:
TH ot th - ordinal number
FM - fill mode

HH - hour of day (01-12)
HH12 - -- // --
HH24 - hour (00-24)
MI - minute (00-59)
SS - socond (00-59)
SSSS - seconds past midnight (0-86399)
Y,YYY - year with comma (full PgSQL datetime range) digits)
YYYY - year (4 and more (full PgSQL datetime range) digits)
YYY - last 3 digits of year
YY - last 2 digits of year
Y - last digit of year
MONTH - full month name (upper) (9-letter)
Month - full month name - first character is upper (9-letter)
month - full month name - all characters is upper (9-letter)
MON - abbreviated month name (3-letter)
Mon - abbreviated month name (3-letter) - first character is upper
mon - abbreviated month name (3-letter) - all characters is upper
MM - month (01-12)
DAY - full day name (upper) (9-letter)
Day - full day name - first character is upper (9-letter)
day - full day name - all characters is upper (9-letter)
DY - abbreviated day name (3-letter) (upper)
Dy - abbreviated day name (3-letter) - first character is upper
Dy - abbreviated day name (3-letter) - all character is upper
DDD - day of year (001-366)
DD - day of month (01-31)
D - day of week (1-7; SUN=1)
WW - week number of year
CC - century (2-digits)
Q - quarter
RM - roman numeral month (I=JAN; I-XII)
W - week of month
J - julian day (days since January 1, 4712 BC)

* Other:
\
- must be use as double \\
- if \\ is in front " is \\ direct character
ex:
\\ -is-> \
\\" -is-> "

" of text "
- all between " is output as text (not parsed)

* Note:

- as base for date and time is used full PostgreSQL DateTime range

* Examples:

template1=> select to_char('now', 'HH24:MI:SS, Day, Month, Y,YYY');
to_char
-------------------------------------
16:53:17, Friday , October , 1,999

template1=> select to_char('now', 'HH24:MI:SS, FMDay, FMMonth, Y,YYY');
to_char
--------------------------------
16:55:47, Friday, October, 1,999

template1=> select to_char('now', 'DDDth DDDTH SSth Y,YYYth FMSSth');
to_char
----------------------------
288th 288TH 02nd 1,999th 2nd

template1=> select to_char('now', 'Hello HH:MI:SS day');
to_char
------------------------
Hello 05:00:12 friday

template1=> select to_char('now', 'Hello "day" HH:MI:SS day');
to_char
----------------------------
Hello day 05:00:33 friday

template1=> select to_char('now', '\\"Hello "day" HH:MI:SS FMday\\"');
to_char
---------------------------
"Hello day 05:01:15 friday"

template1=> select to_char('now', 'HH\\MI\\SS');
to_char
--------
05\10\29

---end-to_char()

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORDINAL(int4, text)

* Translate number to ordinal number and return this as text

* Examples:

template1=> select ordinal(21212, 'TH');
ordinal
-------
21212ND

template1=> select ordinal(21212, 'th');
ordinal
-------
21212nd

---end-ordinal()

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From bouncefilter Sat Oct 16 10:27:59 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 18:26:38 +0400 (MSD)
From: Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
X-Sender: megera@ra
To: Hiroshi Inoue <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
cc: hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] vacuum of permanently updating database
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJLOILGIKBGDINDFAEELCAAA.Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.SK.991016182220.11898s-100000@ra>
Organization: Sternberg Astronomical Institute (Moscow University)
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Hiroshi,

thank you for the message. I'll try current tree but if
it's a bug (probable ?) why don't try to fix it for 6.5.3 ?

Regards,

Oleg

On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Hiroshi Inoue wrote:

Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:06:36 +0900
From: Hiroshi Inoue <Inoue@tpf.co.jp>
To: Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
Cc: hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] vacuum of permanently updating database

Hi

Could you try the current tree ?

As far as I see,there are 2 possibilities.

1. Relation cache invalidation mechanism is much improved
by Tom in the current tree.
In your case,index tuples may be inserted into invalid index
relation and vanish.

2. If vacuum aborts after the internal commit,the transaction
status is changed to be ABORT. This causes inconsistency.
I have changed not to do so in the current tree.

In CURRENT tree,you may have to change vacuum_hits.sql
as follows.

drop index hits_pkey;
vacuum analyze hits(msg_id);
create unique index hits_pkey on hits(msg_id);

Probably DROP INDEX couldn't be executed inside transactions.

Regards.

Hiroshi Inoue
Inoue@tpf.co.jp

I've already posted my question about NOTICE message I'm getting
from vacuum but didn't get any response :-(

Today I decided to do some experiments to reproduce my problem.

I run two independent processes:

1. send parallel requests to apache server in loop. On this request server
does following:

LOCK TABLE hits IN SHARE ROW EXCLUSIVE MODE
UPDATE hits SET count=count+1,last_access=now() WHERE msg_id=1468

2. vacuum table hits in shell scripts

#!/bin/sh
while true ;do
/usr/local/pgsql/bin/psql -tq discovery <vacuum_hits.sql
rc=$?
i=$((i+1))
echo Vaccuming: $i, RC=$rc
sleep 10;
done

where vacuum_hits.sql:

begin work;
drop index hits_pkey;
create unique index hits_pkey on hits(msg_id);
end work;
vacuum analyze hits(msg_id);

Sometimes I get the message:

NOTICE: Index hits_pkey: NUMBER OF INDEX' TUPLES (173) IS NOT
THE SAME AS HEAP' (174)

also several times I get:
ERROR: Can't create lock file. Is another vacuum cleaner running?
If not, you may remove the pg_vlock file in the
/usr/local/pgsql/data//base/discovery
directory

I had to remove this file by hand.

I understand that experiment is a little bit artificial but I'd like
to know what I'm doing wrong and what's the safest way to vacuum
table which is permanently updating. Actually, I got about
12 requests/sec on my home P166, 64Mb, Linux 2.2.12 - each request is a
plenty of database work. I have to vacuum table because at this rate
I got very quick performance degradation.

This is 6.5.2, Linux

Regards,

Oleg

_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

************

************

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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:48:56 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: pg_type questions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910161641460.591-100000@peter-e.yi.org>
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Sender: Peter Eisentraut <peter@peter-e.yi.org>

I'm working on psql printing routines here and want to do alignment by
datatype. Two questions arose:

1) What is the difference between/merit of "line" vs. "_line", "cidr" vs.
"_cidr", etc.? Do I have to worry about them?

2) Can I assume that the Oids for the datatypes are always the same
(barring a developer changing them, of course)? Where are they defined?
What would be the best way to digest the output of libpq's PQftype()?
(Perhaps a char * PQftypetext() would be of general use?)

(The issue here is that I do _not_ want to have to query pg_type for that
information, since psql has no business contacting the database server
when not asked to do so.)

Thanks,
Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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To: Zakkr <zakkr@zf.jcu.cz>
cc: pgsql-hackers <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] to_char(), md5() (long)
In-Reply-To: Message from Zakkr <zakkr@zf.jcu.cz> of "Sat,
16 Oct 1999 15:01:02 +0200."
<Pine.LNX.3.96.991016141339.17812A-100000@ara.zf.jcu.cz>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991016141339.17812A-100000@ara.zf.jcu.cz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 17:27:40 +0100
From: "Oliver Elphick" <olly@lfix.co.uk>

Zakkr wrote:

2) I have comlete imlementation of MD5 routine for PqSQL
(ftp://ftp2.zf.jcu.cz/users/zakkr/pg/md5.tar.gz). As base for source cod
e
is used code from Debian md5sum. In Debian is this code distributed
_without_ some restriction under GPL. Is any problem add this code
(if we want) to PgSQL contrib?

Just to clarify this, this text is from the copyright statement of the
Debain dpkg package, which contains /usr/bin/md5sum:

/usr/bin/md5sum is compiled from md5.[ch] (written by Colin Plumb in
1993 and modified by Ian Jackson in 1995) and md5sum.c (written by
Branko Lankester in 1993 and modified by Colin Plumb in 1993 and Ian
Jackson in 1995). The sources and the binary are all in the public
domain.
--
Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/
========================================
Oliver Elphick Oliver.Elphick@lfix.co.uk
Isle of Wight http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver
PGP key from public servers; key ID 32B8FAA1
========================================
"But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only,
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To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
cc: Goran Thyni <goran@kirra.net>,
PostgreSQL-development <hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] indexable and locale
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:00:34 +0900
<199910160200.LAA01650@ext16.sra.co.jp>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:31:01 -0400
Message-ID: <5492.940095061@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>

Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp> writes:

Attached is a patch to the old problem discussed feverly before 6.5.

... I think your pacthes break
non-ascii multi-byte character sets data and should be surrounded by
#ifdef LOCALE rather than replacing current codes surrounded by
#ifndef LOCALE.

I am worried about this patch too. Under MULTIBYTE could it
generate invalid characters? Also, do all non-ASCII locales sort
codes 0-126 in the same order as ASCII? I didn't think they do,
but I'm not an expert.

The approach I was considering for fixing the problem was to use a
loop that would repeatedly try to generate a string greater than the
prefix string. The basic loop step would increment the rightmost
byte as Goran has done (or, if it's already up to the limit, chop
it off and increment the next character position). Then test to
see whether the '<' operator actually believes the result is
greater than the given prefix, and repeat if not. This avoids making
any strong assumptions about the sort order of different character
codes. However, there are two significant issues that would have
to be surmounted to make it work reliably:

1. In MULTIBYTE mode incrementing the rightmost byte might yield
an illegal multibyte character. Some way to prevent or detect this
would be needed, lest it confuse the comparison operator. I think
we have some multibyte routines that could be used to check for
a valid result, but I haven't looked into it.

2. I think there are some locales out there that have context-
sensitive sorting rules, ie, a given character string may sort
differently than you'd expect from considering the characters in
isolation. For example, in German isn't "ss" treated specially?
If "pqrss" does not sort between "pqrs" and "pqrt" then the entire
premise of *both* sides of the LIKE optimization falls apart,
because you can't be sure what will happen when comparing a prefix
string like "pqrs" against longer strings from the database.
I do not know if this is really a problem, nor what we could do
to avoid it if it is.

regards, tom lane

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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:37:25 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Mike Mascari <mascarim@yahoo.com>
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: ORACLE COMMENT statement
In-Reply-To: <19991015013134.841.rocketmail@web2101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910162132250.591-100000@peter-e.yi.org>
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Sender: Peter Eisentraut <peter@peter-e.yi.org>

I have another question regarding this: It seems that you can attach a
description (or comment, as it is) to any oid. (Not with this command, but
in general). Is this restricted to system oids (like below 16000 or
whatever it was)? Otherwise comments on any user tuple could be created.
Perhaps this should be explicitly prevented or allowed. In the latter case
perhaps the comment statement could be tweaked. Not sure. Just wondering.

-Peter

On Oct 14, Mike Mascari mentioned:

Hello Bruce,

I've just submitted a patch to the patches list which
implements Oracle's COMMENT statement. It will
insert/update/delete the appropriate OID for the
table or column targeted for the comment. It should
apply cleanly against current. If it passes your
scrutiny, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. Might it be possible for psql
(a.k.a Peter Eisentraut) to display the comments
associated with tables, views, and columns in
its \d output? Or perhaps another \ command?

2. Should I write up SGML for it (as well as for
TRUNCATE TABLE)?

3. Should I expand it beyond ORACLE's syntax to
include functions, types, triggers, rules, etc.?

On the TODO list its listed as:

Allow pg_descriptions when creating types, tables,
columns, and functions

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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To: t-ishii@sra.co.jp
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] sort on huge table
In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 14 Oct 1999 23:59:13 +0900
<199910141459.XAA09758@srapc451.sra.co.jp>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:29:21 -0400
Message-ID: <9486.940105761@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>

Tatsuo Ishii <t-ishii@sra.co.jp> writes:

I have done the 2GB test on current (with your fixes). This time the
sorting query worked great! I saw lots of temp files, but the total
disk usage was almost same as before (~10GB). So I assume this is ok.

I have now committed another round of changes that reduce the temp file
size to roughly the volume of data to be sorted. It also reduces the
number of temp files --- there will be only one per GB of sort data.
If you could try sorting a table larger than 4GB with this code, I'd be
much obliged. (It *should* work, of course, but I just want to be sure
there are no places that will have integer overflows when the logical
file size exceeds 4GB.) I'd also be interested in how the speed
compares to the old code on a large table.

Still need to look at the memory-consumption issue ... and CREATE INDEX
hasn't been taught about any of these fixes yet.

regards, tom lane

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910170148.VAA17973@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] pg_type questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910161641460.591-100000@peter-e.yi.org> from
Peter
Eisentraut at "Oct 16, 1999 04:48:56 pm"
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 21:48:18 -0400 (EDT)
CC: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
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I'm working on psql printing routines here and want to do alignment by
datatype. Two questions arose:

1) What is the difference between/merit of "line" vs. "_line", "cidr" vs.
"_cidr", etc.? Do I have to worry about them?

_line is for line arrays.

2) Can I assume that the Oids for the datatypes are always the same
(barring a developer changing them, of course)? Where are they defined?
What would be the best way to digest the output of libpq's PQftype()?
(Perhaps a char * PQftypetext() would be of general use?)

src/include/catalog. There is an unused_oid script in there too.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910170301.XAA20274@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Marc's initial request to start Postgres95 development
To: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:01:13 -0400 (EDT)
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Does anyone have an archive of Marc's request to gather developers for
Postgres95 development? It would in the May-June, 1996 time period.

I had it for a long time, but accidentally deleted it. Isn't there tar
file of all the Postgres95 mailing list messages somewhere? I can find
it if I can get access to an archive.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: RE: [HACKERS] Marc's initial request to start Postgres95 develop
Cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>

On 17-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

Does anyone have an archive of Marc's request to gather developers for
Postgres95 development? It would in the May-June, 1996 time period.

I had it for a long time, but accidentally deleted it. Isn't there tar
file of all the Postgres95 mailing list messages somewhere? I can find
it if I can get access to an archive.

Marc doesn't keep archives of his own posts? How established was the
mailing list then? Was it being gated at the time? Could it be on
one of the main archive sites?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null
# include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seen http://www.pop4.net?
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910170321.XAA21138@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Marc's initial request to start Postgres95 develop
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.991016231559.vev@michvhf.com> from Vince Vielhaber at
"Oct
16, 1999 11:15:59 pm"
To: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:21:22 -0400 (EDT)
CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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On 17-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

Does anyone have an archive of Marc's request to gather developers for
Postgres95 development? It would in the May-June, 1996 time period.

I had it for a long time, but accidentally deleted it. Isn't there tar
file of all the Postgres95 mailing list messages somewhere? I can find
it if I can get access to an archive.

Marc doesn't keep archives of his own posts? How established was the
mailing list then? Was it being gated at the time? Could it be on
one of the main archive sites?

It was posted to the old postgres95 mailing list at the time Jolly ran
it somewhere at postgres95@postgres95.vnet.net. It was before we moved
it over to his site. The issue is that after we switched over to a new
mailing list, I was going through the old postgres95 bug reports and
finding any valuable patches. When I was done, I deleted the file,
forgetting that the founding messages where in the same folder.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Marc's initial request to start Postgres95 develop
Cc: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>

On 17-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

On 17-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

Does anyone have an archive of Marc's request to gather developers for
Postgres95 development? It would in the May-June, 1996 time period.

I had it for a long time, but accidentally deleted it. Isn't there tar
file of all the Postgres95 mailing list messages somewhere? I can find
it if I can get access to an archive.

Marc doesn't keep archives of his own posts? How established was the
mailing list then? Was it being gated at the time? Could it be on
one of the main archive sites?

It was posted to the old postgres95 mailing list at the time Jolly ran
it somewhere at postgres95@postgres95.vnet.net. It was before we moved
it over to his site. The issue is that after we switched over to a new
mailing list, I was going through the old postgres95 bug reports and
finding any valuable patches. When I was done, I deleted the file,
forgetting that the founding messages where in the same folder.

Ahhh, I get it. My first of the group of questions wondered about Marc
keeping archives of his own posts. I'm now guessing he doesn't. You
(and I'm guessing many) people may think it strange but I keep archives
of everything I've posted for the last 3-5 years (except for that hard
drive incident I try to forget :)

From bouncefilter Sat Oct 16 23:30:08 1999
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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910170328.XAA22343@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Marc's initial request to start Postgres95 develop
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.991016232607.vev@michvhf.com> from Vince Vielhaber at
"Oct
16, 1999 11:26:07 pm"
To: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:28:35 -0400 (EDT)
CC: PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
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I had it for a long time, but accidentally deleted it. Isn't there tar
file of all the Postgres95 mailing list messages somewhere? I can find
it if I can get access to an archive.

Marc doesn't keep archives of his own posts? How established was the
mailing list then? Was it being gated at the time? Could it be on
one of the main archive sites?

It was posted to the old postgres95 mailing list at the time Jolly ran
it somewhere at postgres95@postgres95.vnet.net. It was before we moved
it over to his site. The issue is that after we switched over to a new
mailing list, I was going through the old postgres95 bug reports and
finding any valuable patches. When I was done, I deleted the file,
forgetting that the founding messages where in the same folder.

Ahhh, I get it. My first of the group of questions wondered about Marc
keeping archives of his own posts. I'm now guessing he doesn't. You
(and I'm guessing many) people may think it strange but I keep archives
of everything I've posted for the last 3-5 years (except for that hard
drive incident I try to forget :)

Yes, I normally do, and should have retrieved it off tape at the time,
but I figured I was never going to need it. I was wrong. Would be
interesting to see at this point. The berkeley postgres95 site says to
just see our site, so it seems they don't have it.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

From bouncefilter Sat Oct 16 23:58:08 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 20:57:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Mascari <mascarim@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: ORACLE COMMENT statement
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The intent of the COMMENT ON statement was to
allow for users to provide comments on user tables,
views, and the fields which compose them as in
ORACLE. I'll expand the syntax beyond ORACLE's to
include rules, triggers, and functions. Of course,
all of these are the non-system OIDs (although the
PostgreSQL super-user could create/drop comments on
system oid-related objects). The implication is that
I'll have to modify pg_dump to generate COMMENT ON
commands as well for all user tables, views,
functions,
triggers, and rules. The patch I submitted uses
ORACLE's syntax which requires you to specify the
schema object type as well as its name, such as:

COMMENT ON TABLE employees IS 'Employee Records';
COMMENT ON COLUMN employees.employee IS 'Employee ID';

so I'll just add:

COMMENT ON RULE...
COMMENT ON TRIGGER...
COMMENT ON FUNCTION...

Hopefully, the Win32 ODBC driver is smart enough to
fetch the comments from pg_description in response
to a call to ::SQLTables or ::SQLColumns, so ODBC
applications can see the user comments supplied
(I'll check this). I don't know about JDBC.

There's currently nothing to stop a user from
performing an INSERT on pg_description using any OID
they please. Perhaps that should be restricted, but
who knows what applications are out there now which,
not having a COMMENT ON statement, are storing
user comments already in pg_description.

Hopefully, I'll have the other forms done in the next
few days. As Bruce pointed out, \dd already displays
comments for any type. I was hoping for a single
psql '\' command to display the table, its comments,
its column definitions, and any comments associated
with the columns...(an outer join SURE would be
nice for that -- altough one could always do a
SELECT ... WHERE join UNION SELECT WHERE NOT EXISTS..)

Anyways,

Hope that helps,

Mike Mascari
(mascarim@yahoo.com)

--- Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:

I have another question regarding this: It seems
that you can attach a
description (or comment, as it is) to any oid. (Not
with this command, but
in general). Is this restricted to system oids (like
below 16000 or
whatever it was)? Otherwise comments on any user
tuple could be created.
Perhaps this should be explicitly prevented or
allowed. In the latter case
perhaps the comment statement could be tweaked. Not
sure. Just wondering.

-Peter

Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg
10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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From: The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org>
To: Vince Vielhaber <vev@michvhf.com>
cc: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>,
PostgreSQL-development <pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Marc's initial request to start Postgres95 develop
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.991016232607.vev@michvhf.com>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

On 17-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

On 17-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:

Does anyone have an archive of Marc's request to gather developers for
Postgres95 development? It would in the May-June, 1996 time period.

I had it for a long time, but accidentally deleted it. Isn't there tar
file of all the Postgres95 mailing list messages somewhere? I can find
it if I can get access to an archive.

Marc doesn't keep archives of his own posts? How established was the
mailing list then? Was it being gated at the time? Could it be on
one of the main archive sites?

It was posted to the old postgres95 mailing list at the time Jolly ran
it somewhere at postgres95@postgres95.vnet.net. It was before we moved
it over to his site. The issue is that after we switched over to a new
mailing list, I was going through the old postgres95 bug reports and
finding any valuable patches. When I was done, I deleted the file,
forgetting that the founding messages where in the same folder.

Ahhh, I get it. My first of the group of questions wondered about Marc
keeping archives of his own posts. I'm now guessing he doesn't. You
(and I'm guessing many) people may think it strange but I keep archives
of everything I've posted for the last 3-5 years (except for that hard
drive incident I try to forget :)

Actually, I do too, except that mine appear to end around 2 years ago :(
I think that's about the time I got really into saving my messages...

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

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To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] pg_type questions
In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 16 Oct 1999 16:48:56 +0200 (CEST)
<Pine.LNX.4.10.9910161641460.591-100000@peter-e.yi.org>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 11:55:47 -0400
Message-ID: <12757.940175747@sss.pgh.pa.us>
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>

Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:

What would be the best way to digest the output of libpq's PQftype()?
(Perhaps a char * PQftypetext() would be of general use?)

(The issue here is that I do _not_ want to have to query pg_type for that
information, since psql has no business contacting the database server
when not asked to do so.)

You can't have it both ways: either you look up the OID in pg_type,
or the info you provide is incomplete/unreliable.

For the standard system types like int4, text, etc, it's probably OK
for client code to assume that particular numeric OIDs correspond to
those types --- use the #defines that are in catalog/pg_type.h, such as
BOOLOID, to refer to those types. (I think there are one or two places
in libpq and/or psql that do this already, eg, to decide whether a
column is "numeric".) The backend does this all over the place, but
it's a little shakier for frontend code to do it, because a frontend
might possibly be used with other database versions than the one it was
compiled for. Still, I think you could get away with it for standard
types --- AFAIK no one has any intention of renumbering those.

(Thomas has been muttering dire things about the date/time types, so
you might be well advised not to assume anything about those ;-).)

It would not be an unreasonable idea for libpq to provide a general
purpose type-OID-to-type-name mapper, with the understanding that this
mapper *would* query the backend at need. (Of course it should know
automatically about the most common standard types, and it should cache
the results of previous lookups so any one OID is queried at most once
per connection.) We have heard from a number of people who have built
exactly that facility for their applications, so it's obviously useful.

regards, tom lane

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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:40:32 +0400 (MSD)
From: Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
X-Sender: megera@ra
To: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: is it possible to use LIMIT and INTERSECT ?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.SK.991017203739.11898z-100000@ra>
Organization: Sternberg Astronomical Institute (Moscow University)
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Subject says all.
In general I want to limit output from

select ......
intersect
select ......

Current implementation of LIMIT doesn't support this.
Are there any solutions ?

Regards,
Oleg

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910171650.MAA11065@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] pg_type questions
In-Reply-To: <12757.940175747@sss.pgh.pa.us> from Tom Lane at "Oct 17,
1999 11:55:47 am"
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:50:10 -0400 (EDT)
CC: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
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Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:

What would be the best way to digest the output of libpq's PQftype()?
(Perhaps a char * PQftypetext() would be of general use?)

(The issue here is that I do _not_ want to have to query pg_type for that
information, since psql has no business contacting the database server
when not asked to do so.)

You can't have it both ways: either you look up the OID in pg_type,
or the info you provide is incomplete/unreliable.

For the standard system types like int4, text, etc, it's probably OK
for client code to assume that particular numeric OIDs correspond to
those types --- use the #defines that are in catalog/pg_type.h, such as
BOOLOID, to refer to those types. (I think there are one or two places
in libpq and/or psql that do this already, eg, to decide whether a
column is "numeric".) The backend does this all over the place, but
it's a little shakier for frontend code to do it, because a frontend
might possibly be used with other database versions than the one it was
compiled for. Still, I think you could get away with it for standard
types --- AFAIK no one has any intention of renumbering those.

(Thomas has been muttering dire things about the date/time types, so
you might be well advised not to assume anything about those ;-).)

It would not be an unreasonable idea for libpq to provide a general
purpose type-OID-to-type-name mapper, with the understanding that this
mapper *would* query the backend at need. (Of course it should know
automatically about the most common standard types, and it should cache
the results of previous lookups so any one OID is queried at most once
per connection.) We have heard from a number of people who have built
exactly that facility for their applications, so it's obviously useful.

Yes, Tom is exactly right on all these points. My suggestion to look in
include/catalog was just my quick answer.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910171725.NAA11425@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] is it possible to use LIMIT and INTERSECT ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.SK.991017203739.11898z-100000@ra> from Oleg
Bartunov at "Oct 17, 1999 08:40:32 pm"
To: Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 13:25:00 -0400 (EDT)
CC: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
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The only workaround I can think of is to do an INSERT.. SELECT or SELECT
... INTO TABLE with the INSERSECT, and use LIMIT on the resulting table.

Subject says all.
In general I want to limit output from

select ......
intersect
select ......

Current implementation of LIMIT doesn't support this.
Are there any solutions ?

Regards,
Oleg

_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

************

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:44:32 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910170044450.3563-100000@peter-e.yi.org>
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Sender: Peter Eisentraut <peter@peter-e.yi.org>

... yeah, me neither.

Hi all, I have an interesting one for you today. I'm writing a new \dd
command (one that actually works), and I have come across the following
situation:

SELECT DISTINCT a.aggname as "Name" FROM pg_aggregate a
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT p.proname as "Name" FROM pg_proc p
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT o.oprname as "Name" FROM pg_operator o
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT t.typname as "Name" FROM pg_type t
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT c.relname as "Name" FROM pg_class c
;

(It doesn't make much sense as it stands, but I have picked out the
offending parts.)

I get
NOTICE: equal: don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal

Actually, I get several of these. Depending on the number of select
clauses, I get 1 for the third, 2 for the 4th, 3 for the 5th, etc. So the
above query gives me 6 notices. A query with only two select clauses gives
me none.

Without the DISTINCTs everything goes fine.

Now this seems to have something to do with a lack of an equal operator
for the type "name", right? Interestingly enough, the type name has oid
19, whereas type 719 is "_circle", or what does the 719 refer to?

Thanks,
Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-Id: <199910171957.PAA15332@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910170044450.3563-100000@peter-e.yi.org> from
Peter Eisentraut at "Oct 17, 1999 09:44:32 pm"
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:57:52 -0400 (EDT)
CC: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
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I think someone changed the database schema. Try cvs update then
initdb. Could it be that the row of type circle is causing it?

I don't get that here, and 719 is certainly a strange number to be
getting

... yeah, me neither.

Hi all, I have an interesting one for you today. I'm writing a new \dd
command (one that actually works), and I have come across the following
situation:

SELECT DISTINCT a.aggname as "Name" FROM pg_aggregate a
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT p.proname as "Name" FROM pg_proc p
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT o.oprname as "Name" FROM pg_operator o
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT t.typname as "Name" FROM pg_type t
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT c.relname as "Name" FROM pg_class c
;

(It doesn't make much sense as it stands, but I have picked out the
offending parts.)

I get
NOTICE: equal: don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal

Actually, I get several of these. Depending on the number of select
clauses, I get 1 for the third, 2 for the 4th, 3 for the 5th, etc. So the
above query gives me 6 notices. A query with only two select clauses gives
me none.

Without the DISTINCTs everything goes fine.

Now this seems to have something to do with a lack of an equal operator
for the type "name", right? Interestingly enough, the type name has oid
19, whereas type 719 is "_circle", or what does the 719 refer to?

Thanks,
Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

************

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
  maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:21:48 +0400 (MSD)
From: Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su>
X-Sender: megera@ra
To: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
cc: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal
In-Reply-To: <199910171957.PAA15332@candle.pha.pa.us>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.SK.991018001701.11898A-100000@ra>
Organization: Sternberg Astronomical Institute (Moscow University)
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I also got this message with UNION and distinct.
I've tested 6.5.2 and 6.5.3. Current (6.6 or 7.0 ?) works fine

select distinct a.msg_id, c.status_set_date, c.title
from Message_Keyword_map a, messages c, keywords d
where c.status_id =1 and d.name ~* 'sun' and a.key_id=d.key_id
and c.msg_id=a.msg_id
union
select distinct a.msg_id, a.status_set_date, a.title
from messages a where a.status_id = 1 and a.title ~* 'sun';

NOTICE: equal: don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal

Oleg
This is with postgres 6.5.3
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 15:57:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us>
To: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal

I think someone changed the database schema. Try cvs update then
initdb. Could it be that the row of type circle is causing it?

I don't get that here, and 719 is certainly a strange number to be
getting

... yeah, me neither.

Hi all, I have an interesting one for you today. I'm writing a new \dd
command (one that actually works), and I have come across the following
situation:

SELECT DISTINCT a.aggname as "Name" FROM pg_aggregate a
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT p.proname as "Name" FROM pg_proc p
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT o.oprname as "Name" FROM pg_operator o
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT t.typname as "Name" FROM pg_type t
UNION ALL
SELECT DISTINCT c.relname as "Name" FROM pg_class c
;

(It doesn't make much sense as it stands, but I have picked out the
offending parts.)

I get
NOTICE: equal: don't know whether nodes of type 719 are equal

Actually, I get several of these. Depending on the number of select
clauses, I get 1 for the third, 2 for the 4th, 3 for the 5th, etc. So the
above query gives me 6 notices. A query with only two select clauses gives
me none.

Without the DISTINCTs everything goes fine.

Now this seems to have something to do with a lack of an equal operator
for the type "name", right? Interestingly enough, the type name has oid
19, whereas type 719 is "_circle", or what does the 719 refer to?

Thanks,
Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

************
-- 
Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610) 853-3000
+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
+  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
************

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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:24:13 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Mike Mascari <mascarim@yahoo.com>
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: ORACLE COMMENT statement
In-Reply-To: <19991017035721.19203.rocketmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
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On Oct 16, Mike Mascari mentioned:

Hopefully, I'll have the other forms done in the next
few days. As Bruce pointed out, \dd already displays
comments for any type. I was hoping for a single
psql '\' command to display the table, its comments,
its column definitions, and any comments associated
with the columns...(an outer join SURE would be
nice for that -- altough one could always do a
SELECT ... WHERE join UNION SELECT WHERE NOT EXISTS..)

I tell you, outer joins will be nice for a lot of things in psql. At this
point I'm not sure if I should break backwards compatibility like that,
but then psql is supposed to be sort of the example application, so the
latest technology ought to be used.

Anyway, the \dd command was kind of odd in that it only displayed comments
but not what the comments went with.

The way I currently have implemented the comments is like this:
(Ignoring the actual output format, which is currently under _heavy_
development.)

peter@localhost:5432 play=> \d foobar
Table "foobar"

peter@localhost:5432 play=> \set description ""
peter@localhost:5432 play=> \d foobar
Table "foobar"

peter@localhost:5432 play=> \l
List of databases

(4 rows)

peter@localhost:5432 play=> \unset description
peter@localhost:5432 play=> \l
List of databases

(4 rows)

peter@localhost:5432 play=> \dd
Object descriptions

Name | What | Description
-------------------+----------+------------------------------------------
! | operator | fraction
!! | operator | fraction
!!= | operator | not in
!~ | operator | does not match regex., case-sensitive
!~* | operator | does not match regex., case-insensitive
!~~ | operator | does not match LIKE expression
# | operator | intersection point
--<snip>--
varcharne | function | not equal
varcharoctetlen | function | octet length
version | function | PostgreSQL version string
width | function | box width
xid | type | transaction id
xideq | function | equal
| | operator | start of interval
|/ | operator | square root
|| | operator | concatenate
||/ | operator | cube root
~ | operator | contains
~ | operator | matches regex., case-sensitive
~ | operator | path contains point?
~ | operator | polygon contains point?
~* | operator | matches regex., case-insensitive
~= | operator | same as
~~ | operator | matches LIKE expression

(973 rows)

peter@localhost:5432 play=> \dd version
Object descriptions

Name | What | Description
--------+----------+--------------------------
version | function | PostgreSQL version string

(1 row)

Now if we just put a description on every pre-installed entity (in
particular system tables), this is almost like a built-in quick reference!

The \dd doesn't do rules yet, I think. But I'll put that in soon.

So do you see that as a feasible solution?

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden

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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:29:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
cc: pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] pg_type questions
In-Reply-To: <12757.940175747@sss.pgh.pa.us>
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On Oct 17, Tom Lane mentioned:

For the standard system types like int4, text, etc, it's probably OK
for client code to assume that particular numeric OIDs correspond to
those types --- use the #defines that are in catalog/pg_type.h, such as
BOOLOID, to refer to those types. (I think there are one or two places
in libpq and/or psql that do this already, eg, to decide whether a
column is "numeric".) The backend does this all over the place, but
it's a little shakier for frontend code to do it, because a frontend
might possibly be used with other database versions than the one it was
compiled for. Still, I think you could get away with it for standard
types --- AFAIK no one has any intention of renumbering those.

(Thomas has been muttering dire things about the date/time types, so
you might be well advised not to assume anything about those ;-).)

The previous alignment "algorithm" in psql in essence checked for
[^-+0-9\.eE] or sth like that as far as I could tell.

Right now I am just aligning int[248], float[48], and numeric but the
date/time types might be nice as well. But the idea was to straighten this
out a bit so that alignment for other datatypes could easily be added or
removed. I think I might have accomplished that ;)

-Peter

--
Peter Eisentraut Sernanders vaeg 10:115
peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala
http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden