My new job
As many of you know, several businesses are involved in providing
PostgreSQL support.
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge. There will be a press announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) with more
details. I will post a URL here when I have it.
Interestingly, I am the last core member to become officially attached
to a PostgreSQL company. I have been assisting Great Bridge for some
time, but always in an unofficial capacity.
I realize my signing on with any company will make some of you
uncomfortable. I hope my value to the group does not suffer, and that I
continue to be a positive influence for all involved. I expect my new
job will give me even more time to continue doing the things I have done
in the past with PostgreSQL.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
* Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> [001009 22:11] wrote:
As many of you know, several businesses are involved in providing
PostgreSQL support.After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge. There will be a press announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) with more
details. I will post a URL here when I have it.Interestingly, I am the last core member to become officially attached
to a PostgreSQL company. I have been assisting Great Bridge for some
time, but always in an unofficial capacity.I realize my signing on with any company will make some of you
uncomfortable. I hope my value to the group does not suffer, and that I
continue to be a positive influence for all involved. I expect my new
job will give me even more time to continue doing the things I have done
in the past with PostgreSQL.
Bruce, this is a great thing to hear, congratulations, and I hope
you enjoy your new position at what is looking to be a great company.
Anyone with any reservations about Great Bridge need only speak to
the people there and the Postgresql developers already employed by
them to realize that this is a good thing.
I've sat on the sidelines while commercial funding and support has
poured into FreeBSD (companies hiring up our developers to work
full time on FreeBSD) and so far things are going great for us.
best wishes,
-Alfred
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> el d�a Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:06:42
-0400 (EDT), escribi�:
[...]
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge. There will be a press announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) with more
details. I will post a URL here when I have it.
first off: congratulations.
second: what about vadim ? is he working for a postgresql company ?
[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> el d?a Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:06:42
-0400 (EDT), escribi?:[...]
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge. There will be a press announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) with more
details. I will post a URL here when I have it.first off: congratulations.
second: what about vadim ? is he working for a postgresql company ?
Vadim is a contributor to PostgreSQL, Inc, according to the PostgreSQL,
Inc web page:
[Marc, the contributors/advisors column in my browser is not lined up
with the names.]
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Sergio A. Kessler wrote:
Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> el d���a Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:06:42
-0400 (EDT), escribi���:[...]
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge. There will be a press announcement tomorrow (Tuesday) with more
details. I will post a URL here when I have it.first off: congratulations.
second: what about vadim ? is he working for a postgresql company ?
vadim works for EnTrust Solutions, a partner of PostgreSQL, Inc ...
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.
Whatever happened to this:
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 15:19:48 -0400
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: Ross J. Reedstrom <reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu>
Cc: PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Steering committee responce to Great Bridge LLC
: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on core,
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.Whatever happened to this:
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 15:19:48 -0400
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: Ross J. Reedstrom <reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu>
Cc: PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Steering committee responce to Great Bridge LLC: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on core,
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.
Excellent question. I suggested leaving core, but that would still mean
more than 1/3 of core people would be in one company. Our short-term
solution is to keep going until we see some problems. Our long-term
strategy is to increase the size of the core group.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.
Whatever happened to this:
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on core,
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.
I knew someone was going to bring that up ;-).
There's already been discussion of this point among core. What we
now have is three core members employed by Great Bridge and the
other three either fully or partly employed by PostgreSQL Inc.
In one sense that's a stable situation, but on the other hand it does
not agree with our original informal goal of keeping any one company
to a minority position of the core membership.
None of the core members are interested in giving up their new
positions. En masse resignation from the core committee would preserve
our high moral standards, perhaps, but it wouldn't do the project any
good that I can see. So it seems like the choices are to accept the
status quo, or to appoint some more core committee members to bring
the numbers back where we said they should be.
While I can think of a number of well-qualified candidates for core
membership, I don't much like the notion of appointing core members
just to meet some kind of numerical quota. Also, suppose we do appoint
more members, and then some of them accept positions with GB or PgSQL
Inc; do we repeat the exercise indefinitely? (This is not an unlikely
scenario, since the sort of people who'd be asked to join core are
exactly the sort of people whom both companies would love to hire.)
Bottom line is we're not sure what to do now. Opinions from the
floor, anyone?
regards, tom lane
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.Whatever happened to this:
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on core,
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.I knew someone was going to bring that up ;-).
There's already been discussion of this point among core. What we
now have is three core members employed by Great Bridge and the
other three either fully or partly employed by PostgreSQL Inc.
I should mention that the Great Bridge hires are full-time employment,
while not all the PostgreSQL Inc.'s are, so the Great Bridge group is
more in voliation of the original plan.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026* Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> [001010 09:47] wrote:
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.Whatever happened to this:
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 15:19:48 -0400
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: Ross J. Reedstrom <reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu>
Cc: PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Steering committee responce to Great Bridge LLC: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on core,
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.
I think Great Bridge makes a shining example of an exception to
that rule, the impression I got from the developers already there
as well as the managment was very good.
And although I loath to speak for others, you wouldn't think that
Bruce would take this position if it somehow compromised the
integrity of the project somehow, would you?
This is Bruce's choice, but if this was somehow put up to a vote,
how many of you would like to have him working full time on Postgresql
alongside several other highly skilled developers and compensated
for his work rather than trying to squeeze it into his everyday
life like so many other opensource authors with "real jobs" on the
side?
--
-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org]
"I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk."
I think Great Bridge makes a shining example of an exception to
that rule, the impression I got from the developers already there
as well as the managment was very good.And although I loath to speak for others, you wouldn't think that
Bruce would take this position if it somehow compromised the
integrity of the project somehow, would you?This is Bruce's choice, but if this was somehow put up to a vote,
how many of you would like to have him working full time on Postgresql
alongside several other highly skilled developers and compensated
for his work rather than trying to squeeze it into his everyday
life like so many other opensource authors with "real jobs" on the
side?
Actually, I have written a draft article that outlines some of the
dynamics of companies supporting open-source software. It is attached.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026Attachments:
/tmp/policy.htmltext/htmlDownload
What is the main concern? That Great Bridge or PostgreSQL Inc will try to
influence development? This is just my lowly opinion but it seems to me
that this could be a storm brewing in a tea cup, it just doesn't seem to be
that threatening a situation at a glance.
Congrats to everyone on their new positions. *hats off*
-Mitch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: "Peter Eisentraut" <peter_e@gmx.net>
Cc: "PostgreSQL-general" <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>;
"PostgreSQL-development" <pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] My new job
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.Whatever happened to this:
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly
fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on
core,
Show quoted text
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.I knew someone was going to bring that up ;-).
There's already been discussion of this point among core. What we
now have is three core members employed by Great Bridge and the
other three either fully or partly employed by PostgreSQL Inc.
In one sense that's a stable situation, but on the other hand it does
not agree with our original informal goal of keeping any one company
to a minority position of the core membership.None of the core members are interested in giving up their new
positions. En masse resignation from the core committee would preserve
our high moral standards, perhaps, but it wouldn't do the project any
good that I can see. So it seems like the choices are to accept the
status quo, or to appoint some more core committee members to bring
the numbers back where we said they should be.While I can think of a number of well-qualified candidates for core
membership, I don't much like the notion of appointing core members
just to meet some kind of numerical quota. Also, suppose we do appoint
more members, and then some of them accept positions with GB or PgSQL
Inc; do we repeat the exercise indefinitely? (This is not an unlikely
scenario, since the sort of people who'd be asked to join core are
exactly the sort of people whom both companies would love to hire.)Bottom line is we're not sure what to do now. Opinions from the
floor, anyone?regards, tom lane
* Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> [001010 10:03] wrote:
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on core,
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.I knew someone was going to bring that up ;-).
There's already been discussion of this point among core. What we
now have is three core members employed by Great Bridge and the
other three either fully or partly employed by PostgreSQL Inc.
In one sense that's a stable situation, but on the other hand it does
not agree with our original informal goal of keeping any one company
to a minority position of the core membership.None of the core members are interested in giving up their new
positions. En masse resignation from the core committee would preserve
our high moral standards, perhaps, but it wouldn't do the project any
good that I can see. So it seems like the choices are to accept the
status quo, or to appoint some more core committee members to bring
the numbers back where we said they should be.While I can think of a number of well-qualified candidates for core
membership, I don't much like the notion of appointing core members
just to meet some kind of numerical quota. Also, suppose we do appoint
more members, and then some of them accept positions with GB or PgSQL
Inc; do we repeat the exercise indefinitely? (This is not an unlikely
scenario, since the sort of people who'd be asked to join core are
exactly the sort of people whom both companies would love to hire.)Bottom line is we're not sure what to do now. Opinions from the
floor, anyone?
I think anyone with doubts should take a good look at the initial
companies backing Linux, (Redhat, VA, Debian) to see what a boon
this can be to project.
It is open source, so if you guys do happen to piss us off too much
we can always fork off our own version no? :)
So instead of panicing, it makes much more sense to ride it out and
get a feel for where things are going, there's never going to be
anything terribly binding that will come out of this because it is
an opensource project.
It's much more important to continue on with the rapid pace of
developement than to fear black helicopters that haven't even
shown up as blips on the radar.
--
-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org]
"I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk."
I think it comes down to more of an issue of "conflict of interest". Worry
that core members will have more loyalty to the project in view of their
employers as opposed to the view of the project itself. That risk is
increased ten-fold when multiple members are in the same company.
It is tough what to say because there are basically two camps: make a rule
now to prevent possible issues later on, or not worry too much about it and
deal with it if an issue develops.
Adam Lang
Systems Engineer
Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>
To: "Peter Eisentraut" <peter_e@gmx.net>
Cc: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; "PostgreSQL-general"
<pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Re: [HACKERS] My new job
* Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> [001010 09:47] wrote:
Bruce Momjian writes:
After careful consideration, I have decided to accept a job with Great
Bridge.Whatever happened to this:
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 15:19:48 -0400
From: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
To: Ross J. Reedstrom <reedstrm@wallace.ece.rice.edu>
Cc: PostgreSQL-general <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Steering committee responce to Great Bridge LLC: One thing we have agreed to is that there must not be an unseemly
fraction
: of core members working for the same company. With six people on
core,
Show quoted text
: probably about two working at the same company would be a reasonable
: limit.I think Great Bridge makes a shining example of an exception to
that rule, the impression I got from the developers already there
as well as the managment was very good.And although I loath to speak for others, you wouldn't think that
Bruce would take this position if it somehow compromised the
integrity of the project somehow, would you?This is Bruce's choice, but if this was somehow put up to a vote,
how many of you would like to have him working full time on Postgresql
alongside several other highly skilled developers and compensated
for his work rather than trying to squeeze it into his everyday
life like so many other opensource authors with "real jobs" on the
side?--
-Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org]
"I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk."
At 01:02 PM 10/10/00 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
Bottom line is we're not sure what to do now. Opinions from the
floor, anyone?
Yeah, quit worrying and work your collective butts off on 7.1 and 7.2 :)
Seriously...the core group is obviously committed to PG, and appear to
be folks of integrity. We all will benefit by your working on PG full
time while being paid enough so you can eat, drink, and be merry, too.
- Don Baccus, Portland OR <dhogaza@pacifier.com>
Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest
Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at
http://donb.photo.net.
At 01:02 PM 10/10/00 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
Bottom line is we're not sure what to do now. Opinions from the
floor, anyone?Yeah, quit worrying and work your collective butts off on 7.1 and 7.2 :)
C'mon, Don. Stop beating around the bush. Tell us what you really
think. :-)
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 01:37:33PM -0400, Adam Lang wrote:
that core members will have more loyalty to the project in view of their
employers as opposed to the view of the project itself. That risk is
increased ten-fold when multiple members are in the same company.
Hey, I don't think this discussion makes a lot of sense. Yes, I do see the
risks for the project, but Bruce has to do whatever is best for his life. If
you are offered your dream job, would you really back off just because there
are too many of your friends working their too?
After all IF GreatBridge were to take over PostgreSQL the core members are
free to keep on working on a free version in their spare time. So that's
about the same situation as it is now.
Okay they may stop liking to do that, but that can happen regardless of what
job they are in. After all working on free software takes away
quite a lot of your spare time. So many become tired of this once their real
life takes its toll.
Michael
--
Michael Meskes
Michael@Fam-Meskes.De
Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire!
Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL!
Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net> writes:
I think anyone with doubts should take a good look at the initial
companies backing Linux, (Redhat, VA, Debian) to see what a boon
this can be to project.
I'll just clarify that Debian is not a company, it is an non-profit
all-volunteer effort.
I agree with everything else that Alfred says.
Mike.
Import Notes
Reply to msg id not found: AlfredPerlsteinsmessageofTue10Oct2000101503-0700
On Tue, Oct 10, 2000 at 10:15:03AM -0700, Alfred Perlstein wrote:
I think anyone with doubts should take a good look at the initial
companies backing Linux, (Redhat, VA, Debian) to see what a boon
I certainly get your point but I have to correct this as Debian is not,
never has been and never will be a company. Sorry, couldn't resist. :-)
Michael
--
Michael Meskes
Michael@Fam-Meskes.De
Go SF 49ers! Go Rhein Fire!
Use Debian GNU/Linux! Use PostgreSQL!
"...storm brewing in a tea cup, it just doesn't seem to be that
threatening a situation at a glance. Congrats to everyone on their new positions."
I think this 'community' has been doing a great job for all concerned.
From lurking here while I learn enough to do something useful I have
been impressed. If it ain't broke...
"...unseemly fraction of core members working for the same company..." I
assume it is to make sure 'corporate' influence is minimized. Maybe
because most care about PG this is not really a real problem?
The prisoners dilemma is only a dilemma if you play by its rules. All 3
parties are trying to get away with something - get a free lunch (even
the cops). Meaning 1+1=3. Well, if that's the game everyone is playing
nobody except the biggest gun wins, because they can change the
equations, play people off each other, lie, etc.
But if most are in the 1+1=2 game, meaning there is enough honesty and
integrity in the system, you don't need as much structure. As long as
the main priority is to keep PG on the road of excellence, that is what
will happen.
Import Notes
Reference msg id not found: 200010101718.e9AHIqJ90371@hub.org | Resolved by subject fallback
