PostgreSQL Certification

I just noticed that SRA has English language certification now,
available at a nationwide testing center. That's cool. Only the
"Silver" is in English so far, the Gold looks more interesting.

There is no syllabus or books that I could find, but I am taking the
test next wednesday. I'll let you know what it's like... Has anyone
else taken it yet?

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

You could find some idea what the exam looks like.

BTW there is a PostgreSQL CE book in Japanese, which is sold very well
(It has been ranked within 5th position by selling rate these days
according to amazon.co.jp's search using "PostgreSQL" keyword). If any
publisher is interested in translating to English or any other
languages, please let me know. I will forward to the original
publisher.
--
Tatsuo Ishii

On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 12:24:30PM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

You could find some idea what the exam looks like.

My mind broke parsing this question:

Choose two options in "postgresql.conf" which the most suited values
depending on the OS status is automatically assigned at "initdb"
execution time.

I think I maybe, almost kind-of know what it says but I am surer that my
mind is broken.

It seems you may need an editor for your english translations (or I need
to learn to read :).

--
"To the extent that we overreact, we proffer the terrorists the
greatest tribute."
- High Court Judge Michael Kirby

Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2005, 14:36 +1000 schrieb CaT:

On Sun, Jun 12, 2005 at 12:24:30PM +0900, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

You could find some idea what the exam looks like.

My mind broke parsing this question:

Choose two options in "postgresql.conf" which the most suited values
depending on the OS status is automatically assigned at "initdb"
execution time.

I think I maybe, almost kind-of know what it says but I am surer that my
mind is broken.

It seems you may need an editor for your english translations (or I need
to learn to read :).

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

I wonder how certifications in other languages and countries
could work?

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

Since PostgreSQL is an open source database, I think it is important
to understand how to install PostgreSQL from the source code.

I wonder how certifications in other languages and countries
could work?

If there's enough demand to justify the cost for adding new language
for the exam, we look forward to add new one.
--
Tatsuo Ishii

Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2005, 17:59 +0900 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

Since PostgreSQL is an open source database, I think it is important
to understand how to install PostgreSQL from the source code.

Yes, but nowadays you dont learn to build a car to get a certificate
to drive a car. Postgres is available on platforms (win32) for example,
where you dont get in touch with the build process.
(Also true for all the binary distributions, also packages
on some systems where you just use make)

I wonder how certifications in other languages and countries
could work?

If there's enough demand to justify the cost for adding new language
for the exam, we look forward to add new one.

Well, I was thinking of a certificate process more then just an
online test. The problem seems to be to have an authoritative
test center where the candidates really have something of value
at their hands when they pass the certificate.

Am Sonntag, den 12.06.2005, 17:59 +0900 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

Since PostgreSQL is an open source database, I think it is important
to understand how to install PostgreSQL from the source code.

Yes, but nowadays you dont learn to build a car to get a certificate
to drive a car. Postgres is available on platforms (win32) for example,
where you dont get in touch with the build process.
(Also true for all the binary distributions, also packages
on some systems where you just use make)

Well, for me it seems your analogy is more appropriate comparing
building a car with patching or hacking PostgreSQL source code:-)

I wonder how certifications in other languages and countries
could work?

If there's enough demand to justify the cost for adding new language
for the exam, we look forward to add new one.

Well, I was thinking of a certificate process more then just an
online test. The problem seems to be to have an authoritative
test center where the candidates really have something of value
at their hands when they pass the certificate.

Sorry, my English ability is poor enough not to understand what you
are worring about. Could you please explain more?
--
Tatsuo Ishii

t-ishii@sra.co.jp (Tatsuo Ishii) writes:

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

Since PostgreSQL is an open source database, I think it is important
to understand how to install PostgreSQL from the source code.

There will be cases where you'll really need this, particularly if
using extension packages.

For instance, it is likely that Slony-I will be fairly easily
available in precompiled form for PostgreSQL 8.0. On the other hand,
there probably won't be RPM packages (or the like) for version 7.4,
which means that if you want to use Slony-I for a version upgrade,
there will be a need to compile it, and there's a fair likelihood that
you'll need to compile PostgreSQL as well.

That's just one application; I'm sure there are plenty of others.

And there is also the point: "What good is it to be using an 'open
source' database if you aren't competent to use that source?"
--
(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "acm.org")
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord #78. "I will not tell my Legions of Terror
"And he must be taken alive!" The command will be: ``And try to take
him alive if it is reasonably practical.''"
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/&gt;

On Jun 11, 2005, at 11:24 PM, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

You could find some idea what the exam looks like.

question 10 answer depends on if the second query does an update or
just a select. it should be clarified.

Vivek Khera, Ph.D.
+1-301-869-4449 x806

On Jun 13, 2005, at 11:42 AM, Chris Browne wrote:

And there is also the point: "What good is it to be using an 'open
source' database if you aren't competent to use that source?"

so the certification should include proficiency in C to be able to
find answers in source code? hmmmm....

Vivek Khera, Ph.D.
+1-301-869-4449 x806

On Jun 11, 2005, at 11:24 PM, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

You could find some idea what the exam looks like.

question 10 answer depends on if the second query does an update or
just a select. it should be clarified.

Thank you for pointing out the problem. We have fixed it.
--
Tatsuo Ishii

I just took the test. It did for me what I thought it would do, it
made me read the docs from cover to cover (very quickly, and not the
appendices) with a firm deadline. If I hadn't scheduled the test, I
would not have done that. I learned some things.

Here are my comments on the test as an evaluation of someone's
knowledge of PostgreSQL:

1. The bar is set a little low at 64%. I would think the passing
score ought to be a bit higher.

2. The coverage of tasks and knowledge as advertised was pretty appropriate.

3. There were too many typographical errors. However, I was able to
reason through them, to the extent that the typo would have meant no
answer was correct, and at least one answer had to be. For example,
two tables are shown with their data. One has a field "t1" and the
other has a field "ti". The answers would all have been wrong had
they not both been t1.

4. There is too much improper grammar and misuse of terms. This test
was obviously translated. A native English speaker should have been
able to clean it up pretty easily, but I assume there is a huge
question bank, so a few slipped through. What is the feedback loop
for this? I wish I could have left comments for each question
indicating how it could have been written better. It didn't bother me
that much, because I could usually deduce the meaning, but there were
a couple that it really made difficult. A person who is impatient
with imprecise grammar might have gotten upset.

On the issue of "What is certification worth?" I don't have a
technical degree. All I can put on my resume is what I have
accomplished on the job, which prospective employers know is not an
impartial evaluation of my skills. They can call references, but
again, they may just be trying to get rid of me. The only unequivocal
assessment of someone's knowledge (at a point in time, anyway) is a
degree or certification. By themselves they don't say much, but I
think in conjunction with experience they are seen as a good thing by
PHBs.

Thanks to SRA for making this happen!

- Ian

Hi,

Thank you for taking the test and giving comments.

I just took the test. It did for me what I thought it would do, it
made me read the docs from cover to cover (very quickly, and not the
appendices) with a firm deadline. If I hadn't scheduled the test, I
would not have done that. I learned some things.

Here are my comments on the test as an evaluation of someone's
knowledge of PostgreSQL:

1. The bar is set a little low at 64%. I would think the passing
score ought to be a bit higher.

Setting the height of the bar is a difficult problem. We have already
gotten lots of comments both "too high" and "too low":-)

2. The coverage of tasks and knowledge as advertised was pretty appropriate.

3. There were too many typographical errors. However, I was able to
reason through them, to the extent that the typo would have meant no
answer was correct, and at least one answer had to be. For example,
two tables are shown with their data. One has a field "t1" and the
other has a field "ti". The answers would all have been wrong had
they not both been t1.

Sorry for this. We will fix them as soon as possible.

4. There is too much improper grammar and misuse of terms. This test
was obviously translated. A native English speaker should have been
able to clean it up pretty easily, but I assume there is a huge
question bank, so a few slipped through. What is the feedback loop
for this? I wish I could have left comments for each question
indicating how it could have been written better. It didn't bother me
that much, because I could usually deduce the meaning, but there were
a couple that it really made difficult. A person who is impatient
with imprecise grammar might have gotten upset.

Yes, the test was developed in Japanese first, then was translated to
English. If you don't mind, could you please send your comments on the
grammatical problems to pg-certify@osb.sra.co.jp so that we could
improve the test?

Also we are looking forward to do double checking the test by a native
English speaker.

On the issue of "What is certification worth?" I don't have a
technical degree. All I can put on my resume is what I have
accomplished on the job, which prospective employers know is not an
impartial evaluation of my skills. They can call references, but
again, they may just be trying to get rid of me. The only unequivocal
assessment of someone's knowledge (at a point in time, anyway) is a
degree or certification. By themselves they don't say much, but I
think in conjunction with experience they are seen as a good thing by
PHBs.

Thanks to SRA for making this happen!

Thank you!
--
Tatsuo Ishii

Am Montag, den 13.06.2005, 11:42 -0400 schrieb Chris Browne:

t-ishii@sra.co.jp (Tatsuo Ishii) writes:

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

Since PostgreSQL is an open source database, I think it is important
to understand how to install PostgreSQL from the source code.

There will be cases where you'll really need this, particularly if
using extension packages.

For instance, it is likely that Slony-I will be fairly easily
available in precompiled form for PostgreSQL 8.0. On the other hand,
there probably won't be RPM packages (or the like) for version 7.4,
which means that if you want to use Slony-I for a version upgrade,
there will be a need to compile it, and there's a fair likelihood that
you'll need to compile PostgreSQL as well.

That's just one application; I'm sure there are plenty of others.

And there is also the point: "What good is it to be using an 'open
source' database if you aren't competent to use that source?"

Sure, but still this is not really a DBA task but a sysadmin task.
I would range it as usefull secondary knowledge.

tino@wildenhain.de (Tino Wildenhain) writes:

Am Montag, den 13.06.2005, 11:42 -0400 schrieb Chris Browne:

t-ishii@sra.co.jp (Tatsuo Ishii) writes:

For the contents too. I dont think the source code installation
should be so much in the focus of the certification.

Since PostgreSQL is an open source database, I think it is important
to understand how to install PostgreSQL from the source code.

There will be cases where you'll really need this, particularly if
using extension packages.

For instance, it is likely that Slony-I will be fairly easily
available in precompiled form for PostgreSQL 8.0. On the other hand,
there probably won't be RPM packages (or the like) for version 7.4,
which means that if you want to use Slony-I for a version upgrade,
there will be a need to compile it, and there's a fair likelihood that
you'll need to compile PostgreSQL as well.

That's just one application; I'm sure there are plenty of others.

And there is also the point: "What good is it to be using an 'open
source' database if you aren't competent to use that source?"

Sure, but still this is not really a DBA task but a sysadmin task.
I would range it as usefull secondary knowledge.

There is a pretty ambiguous edge, there.

It's usually the DBAs that monitor the PostgreSQL mailing lists,
watching for issues; it is we that will know best how to check if
there are compile flags or contrib components that need to be added.

In these "package managed" days, if it is fair to imagine that DBAs
might not need to know how to compile PostgreSQL because "that's a
sysadmin problem," it is equally fair to imagine that sysadmins might
throw it back to the DBAs because they consider themselves responsible
for installing and configuring "just packages."
--
(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "acm.org")
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord #78. "I will not tell my Legions of Terror
"And he must be taken alive!" The command will be: ``And try to take
him alive if it is reasonably practical.''"
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/&gt;

Am Sonntag, 12. Juni 2005 05:24 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

Regarding question 3,

Select one incorrect statement regarding the installation of PostgreSQL.

1 1. PostgreSQL is unable to use languages other than English unless the
"--enable-multibyte" option is specified at "./configure" time.
2 2. At least 60MB of free disk space is required for compilation.
3 3. GNU make is required.
4 4. "root" cannot execute "make check" properly.
5 5. "--no-locale" should be specified if English is the only language to be
used in PostgreSQL.

Apparently, the correct answer is 1, but statement 5 is equally false.

Am Sonntag, 12. Juni 2005 05:24 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

Regarding question 3,

Select one incorrect statement regarding the installation of PostgreSQL.

1 1. PostgreSQL is unable to use languages other than English unless the
"--enable-multibyte" option is specified at "./configure" time.
2 2. At least 60MB of free disk space is required for compilation.
3 3. GNU make is required.
4 4. "root" cannot execute "make check" properly.
5 5. "--no-locale" should be specified if English is the only language to be
used in PostgreSQL.

Apparently, the correct answer is 1, but statement 5 is equally false.

Really? I vaguley recall that someone who came from US complained
about the sort order of en locale. I thought English speakers prefer C
locale.
--
Tatsuo Ishii

Am Freitag, 24. Juni 2005 17:06 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

Really? I vaguley recall that someone who came from US complained
about the sort order of en locale. I thought English speakers prefer C
locale.

I have never seen an English dictionary or other list that sorts A, ... Z,
a, ... z and accented characters (which do occur in English) last. It might
be a preference for some people, but that is hardly an English vs. other
language issue and certainly not a "should", as phrased in the question.

Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Am Sonntag, 12. Juni 2005 05:24 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

Thank you for interested in PostgreSQL CE. There is a sample
examination problems page:

http://osb.sra.co.jp/postgresql-ce/sys/quiz.php?titleid=S74_en

Regarding question 3,

Select one incorrect statement regarding the installation of PostgreSQL.

1 1. PostgreSQL is unable to use languages other than English unless the
"--enable-multibyte" option is specified at "./configure" time.
2 2. At least 60MB of free disk space is required for compilation.
3 3. GNU make is required.
4 4. "root" cannot execute "make check" properly.
5 5. "--no-locale" should be specified if English is the only language to be
used in PostgreSQL.

Apparently, the correct answer is 1, but statement 5 is equally false.

Really? I vaguley recall that someone who came from US complained
about the sort order of en locale. I thought English speakers prefer C
locale.

And if you want to be really picky number 4 is wrong as well:

root# su - postgres -c "make check"

I know that is really picky but as someone who manages the number of
PostgreSQL systems that I do, I might have picked that one. Number 2 is
also confusing because am I compiling ALL of PostgreSQL? I just did a
check and it took 63 megs just to unpack it, let alone compile it.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:

Am Freitag, 24. Juni 2005 17:06 schrieb Tatsuo Ishii:

Really? I vaguley recall that someone who came from US complained
about the sort order of en locale. I thought English speakers prefer C
locale.

I have never seen an English dictionary or other list that sorts A, ... Z,
a, ... z and accented characters (which do occur in English) last. It might
be a preference for some people, but that is hardly an English vs. other
language issue and certainly not a "should", as phrased in the question.

I think it's more a "programmers are used to ASCII order, but nobody else is"
kind of deal. I agree with Peter that the question is poorly chosen
because both #1 and #5 could be considered wrong.

(I do not much care for answer #2 either, as the space needed varies
quite a bit depending on version and compilation options...)

regards, tom lane