Map of Postgresql Users (OT)

Hi,

Pretty neat: I'm glad I'm not on that map!

Regards,

Arthur

I'm not sure if you show up in the wrong place, but you do show up in
Mountain View, California.

(To see that type 'hooger' next to the 'Name' filter above the map and
click on 'Filter'.

Claire

On Oct 24, 2005, at 12:15 PM, Arthur Hoogervorst wrote:

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Claire McLister wrote:

Hi,

We've developed an automatic email mapping capability from Google Maps
API.

To try it out, we mapped origins of emails to this group from October
2, 2005 2 pm (EST) through October 14th, 9 am (EST).

The result of this map is at:
http://www.zeesource.net/maps/map.do?group=456

Would like to hear what you think of it.

How about using Postgres/PostGIS & UMN mapserver for a fully Open Source
software & Postgres based map?

For a map like the one at
http://www.qgis.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=53

perhaps on the Postgres web site?

Brent Wood

Thanks.

I looked at the Mapserver maps, and at first glance it seems Google
Maps API provides better map images and more interactive features
(zooming, panning, JS popups, satellite/map views, etc.)

So, what would be the advantage of Mapserver apart from it being based
on Open Source?

We use Postgresql server to store the data. Currently, we do not use
PostGIS as we do not do much geographical queries. Over time we could
move in that direction to offer better geographical query support.

Posting this (or a more detailed map) on the Postgresql web site sounds
like a great idea. We could even allow people to add markers for their
locations, and even enter more information about themselves to help
postgresql users connect with each other. One potential opportunity is
for users to quickly find consultants in their own area.

How would we initiate this activity?

Best wishes

Claire

On Oct 24, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Brent Wood wrote:

Actually I have already made a basic google map for the website[1] meant
to replace the old developers map. Check out the blog post at
http://people.planetpostgresql.org/xzilla/index.php?/archives/76-Maptastic.html

I'd be interested in talking more about getting more content into the
map and getting it in officially; One concern I had was finding a way to
include information that won't bog down end users with too much data.
(I've noticed large numbers of points tend to do that)

Robert Treat

On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 12:11, Claire McLister wrote:

Thanks.

I looked at the Mapserver maps, and at first glance it seems Google
Maps API provides better map images and more interactive features
(zooming, panning, JS popups, satellite/map views, etc.)

So, what would be the advantage of Mapserver apart from it being based
on Open Source?

We use Postgresql server to store the data. Currently, we do not use
PostGIS as we do not do much geographical queries. Over time we could
move in that direction to offer better geographical query support.

Posting this (or a more detailed map) on the Postgresql web site sounds
like a great idea. We could even allow people to add markers for their
locations, and even enter more information about themselves to help
postgresql users connect with each other. One potential opportunity is
for users to quickly find consultants in their own area.

How would we initiate this activity?

Best wishes

Claire

On Oct 24, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Brent Wood wrote:

How about using Postgres/PostGIS & UMN mapserver for a fully Open
Source
software & Postgres based map?

For a map like the one at
http://www.qgis.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=53

perhaps on the Postgres web site?

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Claire McLister wrote:

Thanks.

I looked at the Mapserver maps, and at first glance it seems Google
Maps API provides better map images and more interactive features
(zooming, panning, JS popups, satellite/map views, etc.)

So, what would be the advantage of Mapserver apart from it being based
on Open Source?

More vector datasets to overlay & more control of the output map. For
example in New Zealand, we have access to higher resolution imagery than
google maps, as well as detailed vector data.

But I also think it could make a nice showcase for an Open Soure suite,
with Postgres, PostGIS, GEOS, GDAL/OGR, Proj4, Mapserver, using global &
local datasets, etc.

We use Postgresql server to store the data. Currently, we do not use
PostGIS as we do not do much geographical queries. Over time we could
move in that direction to offer better geographical query support.

Posting this (or a more detailed map) on the Postgresql web site sounds
like a great idea. We could even allow people to add markers for their
locations, and even enter more information about themselves to help
postgresql users connect with each other. One potential opportunity is
for users to quickly find consultants in their own area.

How would we initiate this activity?

I'll forward this to a few people in the Open Source web mapping community
who may be able to assist.

Robert Treat wrote:

Actually I have already made a basic google map for the website[1] meant
to replace the old developers map. Check out the blog post at
http://people.planetpostgresql.org/xzilla/index.php?/archives/76-Maptastic.html

I'd be interested in talking more about getting more content into the
map and getting it in officially; One concern I had was finding a way to
include information that won't bog down end users with too much data.
(I've noticed large numbers of points tend to do that)

I do like the fact you pulled the names off the emails as well as the
email addresses. That is important.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

I do like the fact you pulled the names off the emails as well as the
email addresses. That is important.

Is there a plugin I am missing to make this work in Firefox? I just get
a blank grey screen.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Hi Joshua,

No, you should not need a plugin. Can you open the Firefox Javascript
console and see if you get errors in Javascript? The mapping relies
heavily on Javascript and sometimes that gives errors. I just tried it
on Firefox 1.0 and it showed up okay.

Let me know if the problem persists and we can try to resolve it.

Claire

On Oct 25, 2005, at 4:59 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

I took a look at your map, this is great wonderful that you were
already thinking along these lines.

Looks like there are two issues here: (1) Getting the data points for
users/developers maps, and (2) using the most appropriate mapping
technology.

I think we can use the Zeemaps service (http://www.zeemaps.com) for
number (1) above. The way this works is that you create a map and set a
few passwords: (a) moderator, (b) member, and (c) viewer. Using the
moderator password, you can set certain map properties, e.g.,
attributes to maintain with each entry, color legends, etc. With a
member password you can modify entries and their attributes, and with a
viewer password you can just see details without the ability to modify
anything. A casual user can just see the map with the markers and their
names, without access to any details for the entries. Hence
distributing the member password to the group and having each person
add his or her details would be a good way to go. The number of points
for Postgresql users can, of course, go pretty high. So far, we have
seen reasonable performance with up to 500-600 markers. I don't know if
there is an easy way of partitioning the user base into segments that
can fit within this range. Another idea would be to just split the map
after say 500 points.

For the number (2) the choice seems to be between Google Maps vs.
Mapserver and its associated Open Source tools. Having looked at
Brent's follow up emails, it seems that Mapserver and associated
toolkits can give much more flexibility. Plus they have the advantage
that we are not limited by Google's terms, the most annoying of which
is that you cannot save, copy, or distribute the map images created.
So, it seems best to move towards the Open Source alternatives,
specially since they have better images as Brent points out. I've been
looking at some of the Mapserver toolkits, and there seems to be an
overwhelming amount of choice available for what to pick and not. So, I
don't feel qualified to pick the right technologies to use for the base
implementation. If someone can pick the mantle on that, I'd be happy to
work with that person to see how we can exchange information from the
map points stored from (1). If for the time being you feel comfortable
continuing with Google Maps, then there's multiple ways we can share
information developed by (1) through some kind of a web service API.

Claire

On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:33 PM, Robert Treat wrote:

On Wednesday 26 October 2005 18:24, Claire McLister wrote:

On Oct 26, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Brent Wood wrote:

There has recently been a thread on the Postgres user list about a web
based postgres user/developer map. Claire has built a Google map based
system, getting locations from IP addresses.

Just so people know, this map can be found at:

http://www.zeesource.net/maps/map.do?group=456

I'm going to loop in a few more people here :-), namely the pg web team who
will probably be able to give pointers on site integration. One thing to keep
in mind is that the postgresql website is statically mirrored onto a number
of different servers, so any solution we come up with will ideally allow
itself to that. I believe a google maps system can do this (we can mirror the
javascript code and the location/data file on all mirrors and the google map
will work with it as is), which is why I originally went with that type of
solution.

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

Good point. This might actually be a problem. Google Maps API requires
each server that is serving the map to be registered with Google, and
send the corresponding key when making the Javascript request.

Unless the mirrors can each send their own keys, this will not work.

Claire

On Oct 26, 2005, at 6:02 PM, Robert Treat wrote:

Claire McLister wrote:

Good point. This might actually be a problem. Google Maps API requires
each server that is serving the map to be registered with Google, and
send the corresponding key when making the Javascript request.

Unless the mirrors can each send their own keys, this will not work.

Claire

Hi, more cross posting...

Sounds like this task should be solved using WMS and WFS services.
Google is cool but in order to foster both Open Source and standards
(OGC) we would suggest to use e.g. MapServer as WMS to produce the maps
and GeoServer as WFS to manage geomtries. Those OWS services could then
be included in any OWS client, web interface, etc. Everything is there
and ready to go, the effort to get it to run should be minimal.

Our clients usually operate PostgreSQL databases with several million
geometries - those 500 to 600 markers could be hosted on any
antediluvian box and still be fast. You will know what to about
mirroring, we would probably suggest to implement P2P - read Ward
Cunninghams ideas int he keynote at the Wikimania conference this summer...

We have done the user mmapping Mapbender users with tooltips, direct
link to the website, etc. You can have a look at it on the project
homepage http://www.mapbender.org
Its done Wiki-style so that users can enter their own position (use the
blue flag) or remove or edit any position (use the i-button). No user
accounts yet but security and authentication is in place and have just
not yet been necessary (still waiting for spatial spam...)

We will spread word about spatial data management using
PostgreSQL/PostGIS with MapServer, GeoServer etc. at the
http://www.opendbcon.net (database fundamentals) on Nov. 8. and 9. in
Frankfurt/Main, Germany.

This idea is on short notice but i would be really very excited if i
could show the map there! We suggest the following alterantive actions:

- It should be easy to add a geometry_column to the existing PostgreSQL
database which alredy has the positions. Add a GeoServer WFS to access
the geomtry and a MapServer for WMS display.
- Alternatively send Paolo or us or both the geo-positions and we add
them to our existing OWS infrastructure (that will takt a few hours of
work only).

Beause there is not so much time until the conference this would just be
be a prototype which should in the long run move to the PostgreSQL or
PostGIS homepage or Wiki or both. Yet another idea: Mediawiki (the
Wikipedia software) is also right now introducing geometries to the Wiki
database - obviously also using PostgreSQL/PostGIS. This would be
another cool multiplier.. and there we also meet with Google again.

Best, Arnulf.

Arnulf,

Thanks for your message. I looked at the mapbender site, and it looks
like it has the basic functions except the password protection, which
you will probably need at some point:-) The performance from here
(California) was slow, and the map image did not look as good as
Google's. I suppose we have better map images available?

I could not find Cunninghams talk on P2P style wiki's, but seems to me
that it would be too much work for a simple web page. Ideally, we'd
just want to have a static map with possibly Javascript popups. That
way, the performance can be good and the web site doesn't become that
onerous that the pg www group kicks us out.

So, a question to you and Palo: Can you generate such static map
(along with Javascript code) from Mapserver?

Claire

On Oct 28, 2005, at 3:44 AM, Arnulf Christl wrote:

FYI, here is a map of my PostgreSQL trips, using Google:

http://candle.pha.pa.us/main/writings/map.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claire McLister wrote:

I took a look at your map, this is great wonderful that you were
already thinking along these lines.

Looks like there are two issues here: (1) Getting the data points for
users/developers maps, and (2) using the most appropriate mapping
technology.

I think we can use the Zeemaps service (http://www.zeemaps.com) for
number (1) above. The way this works is that you create a map and set a
few passwords: (a) moderator, (b) member, and (c) viewer. Using the
moderator password, you can set certain map properties, e.g.,
attributes to maintain with each entry, color legends, etc. With a
member password you can modify entries and their attributes, and with a
viewer password you can just see details without the ability to modify
anything. A casual user can just see the map with the markers and their
names, without access to any details for the entries. Hence
distributing the member password to the group and having each person
add his or her details would be a good way to go. The number of points
for Postgresql users can, of course, go pretty high. So far, we have
seen reasonable performance with up to 500-600 markers. I don't know if
there is an easy way of partitioning the user base into segments that
can fit within this range. Another idea would be to just split the map
after say 500 points.

For the number (2) the choice seems to be between Google Maps vs.
Mapserver and its associated Open Source tools. Having looked at
Brent's follow up emails, it seems that Mapserver and associated
toolkits can give much more flexibility. Plus they have the advantage
that we are not limited by Google's terms, the most annoying of which
is that you cannot save, copy, or distribute the map images created.
So, it seems best to move towards the Open Source alternatives,
specially since they have better images as Brent points out. I've been
looking at some of the Mapserver toolkits, and there seems to be an
overwhelming amount of choice available for what to pick and not. So, I
don't feel qualified to pick the right technologies to use for the base
implementation. If someone can pick the mantle on that, I'd be happy to
work with that person to see how we can exchange information from the
map points stored from (1). If for the time being you feel comfortable
continuing with Google Maps, then there's multiple ways we can share
information developed by (1) through some kind of a web service API.

Claire

On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:33 PM, Robert Treat wrote:

Actually I have already made a basic google map for the website[1]
meant
to replace the old developers map. Check out the blog post at
http://people.planetpostgresql.org/xzilla/index.php?/archives/76-
Maptastic.html

I'd be interested in talking more about getting more content into the
map and getting it in officially; One concern I had was finding a way
to
include information that won't bog down end users with too much data.
(I've noticed large numbers of points tend to do that)

Robert Treat

On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 12:11, Claire McLister wrote:

Thanks.

I looked at the Mapserver maps, and at first glance it seems Google
Maps API provides better map images and more interactive features
(zooming, panning, JS popups, satellite/map views, etc.)

So, what would be the advantage of Mapserver apart from it being based
on Open Source?

We use Postgresql server to store the data. Currently, we do not use
PostGIS as we do not do much geographical queries. Over time we could
move in that direction to offer better geographical query support.

Posting this (or a more detailed map) on the Postgresql web site
sounds
like a great idea. We could even allow people to add markers for their
locations, and even enter more information about themselves to help
postgresql users connect with each other. One potential opportunity is
for users to quickly find consultants in their own area.

How would we initiate this activity?

Best wishes

Claire

On Oct 24, 2005, at 2:28 PM, Brent Wood wrote:

How about using Postgres/PostGIS & UMN mapserver for a fully Open
Source
software & Postgres based map?

For a map like the one at
http://www.qgis.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=53

perhaps on the Postgres web site?

---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend

--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

On Friday 28 October 2005 06:44, Arnulf Christl wrote:

Yet another idea: Mediawiki (the
Wikipedia software) is also right now introducing geometries to the Wiki
database - obviously also using PostgreSQL/PostGIS. This would be
another cool multiplier.. and there we also meet with Google again.

Wha? mediawiki is planning to use postgis with thier software? I'm currently
working with some folks on a working port of wikimedia to postgresql
(allowing things like transactions and full text searching all in the same
database). That would certainly seem to dovetail into this... you have any
links I could read up on the wikipedia/postgis effort on ?

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 09:47:17PM -0400, Robert Treat wrote:

On Friday 28 October 2005 06:44, Arnulf Christl wrote:

Yet another idea: Mediawiki (the
Wikipedia software) is also right now introducing geometries to the Wiki
database - obviously also using PostgreSQL/PostGIS. This would be
another cool multiplier.. and there we also meet with Google again.

Wha? mediawiki is planning to use postgis with thier software? I'm currently
working with some folks on a working port of wikimedia to postgresql
(allowing things like transactions and full text searching all in the same
database). That would certainly seem to dovetail into this... you have any
links I could read up on the wikipedia/postgis effort on ?

There's nothing yet written down. There's some working code, and I'm
just improving it from "proof of concept" stage to pre-production level.
The code I'm working on is an extension to MediaWiki. It is independent
of the article storage. I'm sure storing everything in one DB would be
better from a design point of view, but it's easier for us to scale if
we keep things apart. Especially new features like these where we've no
idea about the performance impact.

If you're improving MediaWiki's Postgres support we'd of course be happy
to get your patches into the main code tree.

Regards,

JeLuF

Actually all of the mirrors (at least the official ones) work from the same
url (www.postgresql.org), so in theory they should all be able to work from
the same key. I've yet to test this theory, but I do think it would work.

Robert Treat

On Thursday 27 October 2005 13:21, Claire McLister wrote:

Good point. This might actually be a problem. Google Maps API requires
each server that is serving the map to be registered with Google, and
send the corresponding key when making the Javascript request.

Unless the mirrors can each send their own keys, this will not work.

Claire

On Oct 26, 2005, at 6:02 PM, Robert Treat wrote:

On Wednesday 26 October 2005 18:24, Claire McLister wrote:

On Oct 26, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Brent Wood wrote:

There has recently been a thread on the Postgres user list about a
web
based postgres user/developer map. Claire has built a Google map
based
system, getting locations from IP addresses.

Just so people know, this map can be found at:

http://www.zeesource.net/maps/map.do?group=456

I'm going to loop in a few more people here :-), namely the pg web
team who
will probably be able to give pointers on site integration. One thing
to keep
in mind is that the postgresql website is statically mirrored onto a
number
of different servers, so any solution we come up with will ideally
allow
itself to that. I believe a google maps system can do this (we can
mirror the
javascript code and the location/data file on all mirrors and the
google map
will work with it as is), which is why I originally went with that
type of
solution.

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

Where are we on this? Can we get it added to our web site? Can we have
usernames added to the map?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arnulf Christl wrote:

Claire McLister wrote:

Good point. This might actually be a problem. Google Maps API requires
each server that is serving the map to be registered with Google, and
send the corresponding key when making the Javascript request.

Unless the mirrors can each send their own keys, this will not work.

Claire

Hi, more cross posting...

Sounds like this task should be solved using WMS and WFS services.
Google is cool but in order to foster both Open Source and standards
(OGC) we would suggest to use e.g. MapServer as WMS to produce the maps
and GeoServer as WFS to manage geomtries. Those OWS services could then
be included in any OWS client, web interface, etc. Everything is there
and ready to go, the effort to get it to run should be minimal.

Our clients usually operate PostgreSQL databases with several million
geometries - those 500 to 600 markers could be hosted on any
antediluvian box and still be fast. You will know what to about
mirroring, we would probably suggest to implement P2P - read Ward
Cunninghams ideas int he keynote at the Wikimania conference this summer...

We have done the user mmapping Mapbender users with tooltips, direct
link to the website, etc. You can have a look at it on the project
homepage http://www.mapbender.org
Its done Wiki-style so that users can enter their own position (use the
blue flag) or remove or edit any position (use the i-button). No user
accounts yet but security and authentication is in place and have just
not yet been necessary (still waiting for spatial spam...)

We will spread word about spatial data management using
PostgreSQL/PostGIS with MapServer, GeoServer etc. at the
http://www.opendbcon.net (database fundamentals) on Nov. 8. and 9. in
Frankfurt/Main, Germany.

This idea is on short notice but i would be really very excited if i
could show the map there! We suggest the following alterantive actions:

- It should be easy to add a geometry_column to the existing PostgreSQL
database which alredy has the positions. Add a GeoServer WFS to access
the geomtry and a MapServer for WMS display.
- Alternatively send Paolo or us or both the geo-positions and we add
them to our existing OWS infrastructure (that will takt a few hours of
work only).

Beause there is not so much time until the conference this would just be
be a prototype which should in the long run move to the PostgreSQL or
PostGIS homepage or Wiki or both. Yet another idea: Mediawiki (the
Wikipedia software) is also right now introducing geometries to the Wiki
database - obviously also using PostgreSQL/PostGIS. This would be
another cool multiplier.. and there we also meet with Google again.

Best, Arnulf.

On Oct 26, 2005, at 6:02 PM, Robert Treat wrote:

On Wednesday 26 October 2005 18:24, Claire McLister wrote:

On Oct 26, 2005, at 2:08 PM, Brent Wood wrote:

There has recently been a thread on the Postgres user list about a web
based postgres user/developer map. Claire has built a Google map based
system, getting locations from IP addresses.

Just so people know, this map can be found at:

http://www.zeesource.net/maps/map.do?group=456

I'm going to loop in a few more people here :-), namely the pg web
team who
will probably be able to give pointers on site integration. One thing
to keep
in mind is that the postgresql website is statically mirrored onto a
number
of different servers, so any solution we come up with will ideally allow
itself to that. I believe a google maps system can do this (we can
mirror the
javascript code and the location/data file on all mirrors and the
google map
will work with it as is), which is why I originally went with that
type of
solution.

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

_______________________________________________
Freegis-list mailing list
Freegis-list@intevation.de
https://intevation.de/mailman/listinfo/freegis-list

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073