Oracle purchases Sleepycat - is this the "other shoe" for MySQL AB?
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).
Does this mean the other shoe has dropped for MySQL AB?
--
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On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).
From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with Sleepycat, Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer. Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.
Rich
--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Author of "Quantifying Environmental
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) | Impact Assessments Using Fuzzy Logic"
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com> Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax: 503-667-8863
Rich Shepard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with
Sleepycat, Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer.
Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.Rich
Zope is a Python framework
Zend is for php
leonel
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 10:51, Leonel Nunez wrote:
Rich Shepard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with
Sleepycat, Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer.
Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.Rich
Zope is a Python framework
Zend is for php
Also, given the license of PHP, which is NOT like the GPL, but much
closer to the BSD license, I doubt Oracle could manage to buy it and
kill it or hide it or whatever.
merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).
Does this mean the other shoe has dropped for MySQL AB?
The deal's not gone through yet, but it sure does look like they want to
put a hammerlock on MySQL ...
regards, tom lane
Tom Lane wrote:
merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).Does this mean the other shoe has dropped for MySQL AB?
The deal's not gone through yet, but it sure does look like they want to
put a hammerlock on MySQL ...
Oracle claims it has (has anyone been contacted by Oracle about PG :)?):
http://www.informationweek.com/software/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=180200853&subSection=Open+Source
--
Steve Wampler -- swampler@noao.edu
The gods that smiled on your birth are now laughing out loud.
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Scott Marlowe wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 10:51, Leonel Nunez wrote:
Rich Shepard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with
Sleepycat, Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer.
Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.Rich
Zope is a Python framework
Zend is for phpAlso, given the license of PHP, which is NOT like the GPL, but much
closer to the BSD license, I doubt Oracle could manage to buy it and
kill it or hide it or whatever.
As of this moment, if Oracle buys Zend, they could effectively kill PHP
... the core engine that PHP is built around is a Zend engine, so if they
were to revoke the license for that, PHP would be dead ... kinda like
MySQL with InnoDB ... now, there was talk at one point time with
replacying that engine with Parrot, so I'm not sure how hard/long it would
take for them to do so if Zend got pulled out from under them ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Scott Marlowe wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 10:51, Leonel Nunez wrote:
Rich Shepard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was
the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with
Sleepycat, Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer.
Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.Rich
Zope is a Python framework
Zend is for phpAlso, given the license of PHP, which is NOT like the GPL, but much
closer to the BSD license, I doubt Oracle could manage to buy it and
kill it or hide it or whatever.As of this moment, if Oracle buys Zend, they could effectively kill PHP
... the core engine that PHP is built around is a Zend engine, so if
they were to revoke the license for that, PHP would be dead ... kinda
like MySQL with InnoDB ... now, there was talk at one point time with
replacying that engine with Parrot, so I'm not sure how hard/long it
would take for them to do so if Zend got pulled out from under them ...----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
Why not replace the whole of PHP/mySQL with Whitebeam(unashamed plug)/PostgreSQL,
have a complete BSD licensed solution and avoid all this uncertainty :-) ?
--
Peter Wilson
http://www.whitebeam.org
http://www.yellowhawk.co.uk
--------
* Marc G. Fournier (scrappy@postgresql.org) wrote:
As of this moment, if Oracle buys Zend, they could effectively kill PHP
... the core engine that PHP is built around is a Zend engine, so if they
were to revoke the license for that, PHP would be dead ... kinda like
MySQL with InnoDB ... now, there was talk at one point time with
replacying that engine with Parrot, so I'm not sure how hard/long it would
take for them to do so if Zend got pulled out from under them ...
Has there been any actual test (ie: court case) of a piece of software
being released under an open source (BSD, GPL, whatever) license and
then the licensor revoking that and stopping everyone from distributing
the code? Personally, I have no idea at all if this is something which
can be done and upheld or not and I'm kind of curious about it. That
would be a very different (and much more difficult for the rest of us)
situation from releasing future versions as closed-source only or just
not releasing new versions.
Thanks,
Stephen
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Stephen Frost wrote:
* Marc G. Fournier (scrappy@postgresql.org) wrote:
As of this moment, if Oracle buys Zend, they could effectively kill PHP
... the core engine that PHP is built around is a Zend engine, so if they
were to revoke the license for that, PHP would be dead ... kinda like
MySQL with InnoDB ... now, there was talk at one point time with
replacying that engine with Parrot, so I'm not sure how hard/long it would
take for them to do so if Zend got pulled out from under them ...Has there been any actual test (ie: court case) of a piece of software
being released under an open source (BSD, GPL, whatever) license and
then the licensor revoking that and stopping everyone from distributing
the code? Personally, I have no idea at all if this is something which
can be done and upheld or not and I'm kind of curious about it. That
would be a very different (and much more difficult for the rest of us)
situation from releasing future versions as closed-source only or just
not releasing new versions.
Actually, based on my limited understanding ... "currently existing
versions" of PHP would be safe, it would be new versions that would have
to rip out the Zend stuff ... I don't believe you can retroactively change
a license, but IANAL ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
At 2:15 PM -0400 2/14/06, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Scott Marlowe wrote:
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 10:51, Leonel Nunez wrote:
Rich Shepard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with
Sleepycat, Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer.
Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.Rich
Zope is a Python framework
Zend is for phpAlso, given the license of PHP, which is NOT like the GPL, but much
closer to the BSD license, I doubt Oracle could manage to buy it and
kill it or hide it or whatever.As of this moment, if Oracle buys Zend, they could effectively kill
PHP ... the core engine that PHP is built around is a Zend engine,
so if they were to revoke the license for that, PHP would be dead
... kinda like MySQL with InnoDB ... now, there was talk at one
point time with replacying that engine with Parrot, so I'm not sure
how hard/long it would take for them to do so if Zend got pulled out
from under them ...
Zend isn't, last time I looked (which, granted, was ages ago), needed
to run PHP, but it may be now. The license that's in php 5.1.2 makes
it look like, while you might have some naming problems, php would be
safely available regardless of what anyone might do to the Zend
people.
Parrot was certainly functionally up for running PHP last summer, and
it seems unlikely that it's not still ready. (Granted, someone would
still have to write any libraries that PHP provides that aren't
written in PHP, and write a simple compiler for it, so it wouldn't
happen tomorrow, but it's certainly doable)
--
Dan
--------------------------------------it's like this-------------------
Dan Sugalski even samurai
dan@sidhe.org have teddy bears and even
teddy bears get drunk
Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> writes:
Has there been any actual test (ie: court case) of a piece of software
being released under an open source (BSD, GPL, whatever) license and
then the licensor revoking that and stopping everyone from distributing
the code?
AFAIK it's not possible to revoke privileges already granted. The
reason that Oracle's moves are potentially serious is that there is a
fairly small developer base for the bits of software in question, and
they could effectively lock up the knowledge needed to do anything
useful (eg, by enforcing noncompete agreements that probably already
exist for the employees of the companies they're buying). Thus,
even though the user communities of these packages have the legal right
to maintain a GPL-license fork, they might be years away from having
the technical competence to do anything very useful with them. (Look
at how long it took us to get far with the PG codebase after Berkeley
handed it over.) Plus there's the problem of re-coalescing the
community around a new core team that doesn't exist ...
regards, tom lane
* Marc G. Fournier (scrappy@postgresql.org) wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Stephen Frost wrote:
Has there been any actual test (ie: court case) of a piece of software
being released under an open source (BSD, GPL, whatever) license and
then the licensor revoking that and stopping everyone from distributing
the code? Personally, I have no idea at all if this is something which
can be done and upheld or not and I'm kind of curious about it. That
would be a very different (and much more difficult for the rest of us)
situation from releasing future versions as closed-source only or just
not releasing new versions.Actually, based on my limited understanding ... "currently existing
versions" of PHP would be safe, it would be new versions that would have
to rip out the Zend stuff ... I don't believe you can retroactively change
a license, but IANAL ...
Well, if you can't retroactively change a license then couldn't the
existing version of Zend also be used going forward...? It wouldn't
need to be ripped out... (Perhaps I'm missing something here but I'm
guessing the Zend stuff is under an open source license atm too...).
Thanks,
Stephen
merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).Does this mean the other shoe has dropped for MySQL AB?
This assumes that the MySQL AB plan was to have the "new transaction
engine" be based on Sleepycat DB.
There was certainly plenty of speculation that assumed that, but I
don't recall seeing anything actually said by principals of MySQL AB
to that effect...
--
output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/finances.html
A student, in hopes of understanding the Lambda-nature, came to
Greenblatt. As they spoke a Multics system hacker walked by. "Is it
true", asked the student, "that PL-1 has many of the same data types
as Lisp?" Almost before the student had finished his question,
Greenblatt shouted, "FOO!", and hit the student with a stick.
On Tue, 2006-02-14 at 12:54, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Stephen Frost wrote:
* Marc G. Fournier (scrappy@postgresql.org) wrote:
As of this moment, if Oracle buys Zend, they could effectively kill PHP
... the core engine that PHP is built around is a Zend engine, so if they
were to revoke the license for that, PHP would be dead ... kinda like
MySQL with InnoDB ... now, there was talk at one point time with
replacying that engine with Parrot, so I'm not sure how hard/long it would
take for them to do so if Zend got pulled out from under them ...Has there been any actual test (ie: court case) of a piece of software
being released under an open source (BSD, GPL, whatever) license and
then the licensor revoking that and stopping everyone from distributing
the code? Personally, I have no idea at all if this is something which
can be done and upheld or not and I'm kind of curious about it. That
would be a very different (and much more difficult for the rest of us)
situation from releasing future versions as closed-source only or just
not releasing new versions.Actually, based on my limited understanding ... "currently existing
versions" of PHP would be safe, it would be new versions that would have
to rip out the Zend stuff ... I don't believe you can retroactively change
a license, but IANAL ...
Nope. The ZEND license reads pretty much like a BSD license. "You got
it, it's yours, feel free to do what you want with it, as long as you
acknowledge you got it from us."
So, new versions of PHP could certainly be built on top of Zend, and if
someone found a bug in Zend, then they could fix it and release that
improved version. As long as they followed the license given to them.
Again, the MySQL thing is very different from most other situations, and
it's different BECAUSE MySQL AB plays the dual license game but they
don't own all the code they dual license.
Chris Browne wrote:
This assumes that the MySQL AB plan was to have the "new transaction
engine" be based on Sleepycat DB.There was certainly plenty of speculation that assumed that, but I
don't recall seeing anything actually said by principals of MySQL AB
to that effect...
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1/en/bdb-storage-engine.html
--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
The rumor wrt to buying sleepycat is true.
http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/2006_feb/sleepycat.html
--elein
Show quoted text
On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 08:32:00AM -0800, Rich Shepard wrote:
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
Oracle purchases Sleepycat. From what I understand, BerkeleyDB was the
"other" way that MySQL could have transactions if Oracle decided to
restrict InnoDB tables (after purchasing Innobase last year).From what I read a few days ago, Oracle is negotiating with Sleepycat,
Zope
(is that the PHP developer's name?), and one other OSS developer. Nothing is
yet signed, and they could all fall through.Rich
--
Richard B. Shepard, Ph.D. | Author of "Quantifying
Environmental
Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM) | Impact Assessments Using Fuzzy
Logic"
<http://www.appl-ecosys.com> Voice: 503-667-4517 Fax:
503-667-8863---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
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match
On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 02:00:13PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> writes:
Has there been any actual test (ie: court case) of a piece of software
being released under an open source (BSD, GPL, whatever) license and
then the licensor revoking that and stopping everyone from distributing
the code?AFAIK it's not possible to revoke privileges already granted. The
reason that Oracle's moves are potentially serious is that there is a
fairly small developer base for the bits of software in question, and
they could effectively lock up the knowledge needed to do anything
useful (eg, by enforcing noncompete agreements that probably already
exist for the employees of the companies they're buying). Thus,
even though the user communities of these packages have the legal right
to maintain a GPL-license fork, they might be years away from having
the technical competence to do anything very useful with them. (Look
at how long it took us to get far with the PG codebase after Berkeley
handed it over.) Plus there's the problem of re-coalescing the
community around a new core team that doesn't exist ...regards, tom lane
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match
Not just non-compete agreements, but purchasing of employees with
the knowledge base is how it works. That is what Informix did with
Illustra--it bought the engineers. Sleepycat people are probably
tied up with golden handcuffs--corporate kink ;)
--elein
elein@varlena.com
On 2/14/06, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote:
Zend isn't, last time I looked (which, granted, was ages ago), needed
to run PHP, but it may be now.
I guess you are thinking about "Zend - PHP Optimizer" not "Zend - PHP Core".
--
marko
At 11:16 PM +0200 2/14/06, Marko Kreen wrote:
On 2/14/06, Dan Sugalski <dan@sidhe.org> wrote:
Zend isn't, last time I looked (which, granted, was ages ago), needed
to run PHP, but it may be now.I guess you are thinking about "Zend - PHP Optimizer" not "Zend - PHP Core".
Yeah. The core falls under the basic PHP license, which isn't
yankable unless there's some bizarre, gross, and egregious negligence
on the part of an awful lot of people. (in which case arguably it
ought to be brought to light anyway, though I don't know that I'd
want to be the one arguing it)
--
Dan
--------------------------------------it's like this-------------------
Dan Sugalski even samurai
dan@sidhe.org have teddy bears and even
teddy bears get drunk
