GUI Interface

Bart Butell wrote:

Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for
Microsoft SQL Server?

A couple of big ones are pgAdmin3 and phppgadmin

pgAdmin3 is a desktop app and looks like Enterprise Mgr. If you are
used to Enterprise mgr, it can be almost good enough, especially the
Query Analyzer look-alike. However, it has some drawbacks. The longer
you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases each time you
start up. It says "Restoring previous settings". On my linux box, it
also has the dubious honor of being the only program I have ever seen
that can lock X hard, with killing the X server being the only rescue
(if you call that a rescue). It can connect over networks, but on mine
it always seems to hang after an hour or so, and you have to kill it and
restart it. Finally, it ain't great for inspecting text columns.

phppgadmin runs on the server so you can use any browser to use it. It
really shines in its display of text columns. Its only limitations that
I've ever seen are the obvious limitations of being a web app. I prefer
pgAdmin3 over phppgadmin solely because pgadmin3 is a desktop app.

I find pgadmin3 also superior for inspecting and fiddling with stored
procedures and especially triggers.

Just my $.02.

And then there is PG Lightning Admin (which I like quite a bit). EMS has a GUI, although it has some limitations and I've heard that the folks that do the MySQL GUI have developed one for PostgreSQL. Almost an embarrassment of riches!

Michael Schmidt
----- Original Message -----
From: Bart Butell<mailto:bbutell@sasquatch-eng.com>
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org<mailto:pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for Microsoft SQL Server?

Thanks

Bart Butell

Sasquatch Engineering

email:bbutell@sasquatch-eng.com

cell: 503 703-0044

Bart Butell wrote:

Is there a GUI interface to the database like Enterprise Manager for
Microsoft SQL Server?

Thanks

Bart Butell

Sasquatch Engineering

email:bbutell@sasquatch-eng.com

cell: 503 703-0044

Your in Luck Bart,
Check out PG Lightning Admin, it was developed initially for use by MS
SQL server DBAs who could not stand pgAdmin III. I have sent you the
full story privately. PG Lightning Admin can administer Postgresql
databases running on any platform(Linux,Solaris,BSD,Win32 etc)

To find out more see:
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com/lightning_admin.php

We have a forum and a Mantis bug tracking system that you can check
out(all powered by Postgresql of course).
We make it a point to take customer requests and bug fixes very
seriously which you can see by browsing the forums and the bug tracking
system.

Hope this helps you out.

Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto
Sent: 12 May 2006 04:33
To: Bart Butell
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

Your in Luck Bart,
Check out PG Lightning Admin, it was developed initially for
use by MS SQL server DBAs who could not stand pgAdmin III. I
have sent you the full story privately. PG Lightning Admin
can administer Postgresql databases running on any
platform(Linux,Solaris,BSD,Win32 etc)

Only runs on Windows though doesn't it?

Regards, Dave

________________________________

From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
Sent: 12 May 2006 02:09
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to
databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous
settings".

It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database
grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that point
it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the treeview to
roughly the state that it was when you last used it.

I am considering making that behaviour optional though - I have many
databases for instance, and often find myself wating a few seconds
needlessly.

On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the
only program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X
server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can
connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after an hour
or so, and you have to kill it and restart it.

That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a
coredump?

Finally, it ain't great for inspecting text columns.

How so- the in-grid editor? I'm open to suggestions and feedback.

Regards, Dave.

Dave Page wrote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] *On Behalf Of *Kenneth
Downs
*Sent:* 12 May 2006 02:09
*To:* pgsql-general@postgresql.org
*Subject:* Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to databases
each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous settings".

It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database
grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that
point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the
treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it.

My database has 270+ tables. That's probably small for where it will be
in a year. At the moment I have only a dozen or so databases per
server, and four servers that I regularly connect to. I did not
intentionally turn on debug logging.

I am considering making that behaviour optional though - I have many
databases for instance, and often find myself wating a few seconds
needlessly.

Yeah, it's hard to complain about seconds, but delays of that sort do
upset concentration. The problem is compounded when I have to kill it
and restart it for a network hang.

On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only
program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X
server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can
connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after
an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it.

That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a
coredump?

I'll answer this in another email, I'm about to deliberately freeze my X
server and won't be able to answer :)

Finally, it ain't great for inspecting text columns.

How so- the in-grid editor? I'm open to suggestions and feedback.

The results display in the query analyzer shows one results at one row
height. If a text column has CR's in it, such as the text of a stored
procedure, or a stored XML file, you can't see anything. There appears
no way to increase the height of the displayed result, so all I see is
the first line. Ideal would be a display that sized itself to the
height of the content. Then I'd be clean out of phppgadmin.

phppgadmin has the edge here because they simply dump the result to the
display and the browser sizes it.

Dave Page wrote:

On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only
program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X
server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can
connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after
an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it.

That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a
coredump?

The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens again
I'll know who to notify.

As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If there
was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a row in the
results, and then clicked into the upper window while dragging the
mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened much much less
often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, and it always
involves a click-drag situation.

Kenneth Downs schrieb:

Dave Page wrote:

On my linux box, it also has the dubious honor of being the only
program I have ever seen that can lock X hard, with killing the X
server being the only rescue (if you call that a rescue). It can
connect over networks, but on mine it always seems to hang after
an hour or so, and you have to kill it and restart it.

That's a new one. Any other symptoms? Can you get a backtrace from a
coredump?

The good news is I could not reproduce it. But when it happens again
I'll know who to notify.

As I recall, the problem would occur in the query analyzer. If there
was highlighted text in the top window, and you highlighted a row in the
results, and then clicked into the upper window while dragging the
mouse, it would freeze the X server. It has happened much much less
often lately, but it did happen just two days ago, and it always
involves a click-drag situation.

Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly into
the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in the result
you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and X freezes in this
case. However you can login via another box and just kill pgadmin
to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem with how drag & drop
is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea.

Regards
Tino Wildenhain

________________________________

From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
Sent: 12 May 2006 13:06
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

Dave Page wrote:

________________________________

From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Kenneth Downs
Sent: 12 May 2006 02:09
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

The longer you use it, the longer it takes to
connect to databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring
previous settings".

It should only take longer if the number of objects in
your database grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging.
At that point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the
treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it.

My database has 270+ tables. That's probably small for where it
will be in a year. At the moment I have only a dozen or so databases
per server, and four servers that I regularly connect to. I did not
intentionally turn on debug logging.

I am considering making that behaviour optional though -
I have many databases for instance, and often find myself wating a few
seconds needlessly.

Yeah, it's hard to complain about seconds, but delays of that
sort do upset concentration. The problem is compounded when I have to
kill it and restart it for a network hang.

OK, I think I'm going to make 'restore' a per-server option.

How so- the in-grid editor? I'm open to
suggestions and feedback.

The results display in the query analyzer shows one results at
one row height. If a text column has CR's in it, such as the text of a
stored procedure, or a stored XML file, you can't see anything. There
appears no way to increase the height of the displayed result, so all I
see is the first line. Ideal would be a display that sized itself to
the height of the content. Then I'd be clean out of phppgadmin.

phppgadmin has the edge here because they simply dump the result
to the display and the browser sizes it.

Hmm, OK - I'm not sure everyone would want it to auto-size to the
contents, but certainly in SVN trunk you can adjust the height of a
column and see multiple lines correctly.

Which leads me onto your other email that just arrived - you might want
to try SVN trunk as the Query Tool has been the subject of a lot of
recent work. It now uses a grid control rather than a list (which is
most likely why multiline data is visible without any deliberate fixes),
and the control is virtualised which now *completely* eliminates the
data load time. In other words, where we used to display 123msec
+102msec as a query time, now all you see (and wait) is 123mSec :-).
There have also been a number of of other improvements such as the
addition of a 'Favourite Query' manager, a 'Quick Report' engine which
will dump your queries & results as XHTML or XML reports, and copy to
clipboard improvements. Some of these could well have resolved the issue
you are seeing.

Regards, Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Tino
Wildenhain
Sent: 12 May 2006 13:19
To: Kenneth Downs
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

Yes, that seems a gtk issue. You mark, then klick accidentaly
into the marked text (usually to change the mark area) and in
the result you are dragging the text to nowhere. pgadmin and
X freezes in this case. However you can login via another box
and just kill pgadmin to unfreeze. Maybe there is a problem
with how drag & drop is/isnt handled by the code? I have no idea.

It's possible - drag 'n' drop is entirely handled by the Styled Text
Control from wxWidgets rather than pgAdmin though, so it should be
possible to reproduce it in other STC's in the app - for example, the
function defintion on the Function dialogue. I'd be interested if this
is possible as it should then be fairly easy to whip up a test case for
the wx guys to look at.

Regards, Dave

Dave Page wrote:

Only runs on Windows though doesn't it?

Regards, Dave

Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems
account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I would guess that
more regular people (NON FOSS developers) access Postgresql from a win32
Desktop not a Unix one.
When Linux gets above 20% it might make sense to make applications for
it, or if there was a thriving RAD IDE like Delphi. Mono is shaping up
and so is Lazarus, but
they are not there yet, and WXwidgets/Python etc is not productive at
all, and Java is slow.
By the way PGLA actually works OK with the latest version of WINE so it
can run on Linux, just not natively.

I like many people dual boot Linux and I can tell you I spend most of my
time in win32 because applications I need don't exist for Linux.

Later,

--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
Your best bet for Postgresql Administration

Kenneth Downs wrote:

Dave Page wrote:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] *On Behalf Of
*Kenneth Downs
*Sent:* 12 May 2006 02:09
*To:* pgsql-general@postgresql.org
*Subject:* Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

The longer you use it, the longer it takes to connect to
databases each time you start up. It says "Restoring previous
settings".

It should only take longer if the number of objects in your database
grows significantly, or if you've turned on debug logging. At that
point it is examining your database so that it can rebuild the
treeview to roughly the state that it was when you last used it.

My database has 270+ tables. That's probably small for where it will
be in a year. At the moment I have only a dozen or so databases per
server, and four servers that I regularly connect to. I did not
intentionally turn on debug logging.

Part of the problem is that pgAdmin III seems to preload object
properties instead of pulling them in as you need them.
I have noticed many times in pgAdmin III that when a function is edited
and saved by someone else on a different workstation I can't see those
changes until I manually
refresh the object. When you have a ton of tables etc that
preloading/caching has to be taking up some time.

PGLA only populates the tree with the object names, and when you double
click or right click to edit, then and only then is the object data
brought back and displayed.

When Lazarus(http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/) becomes more stable I
will create a port of PGLA that will run on Linux and Mac OS X.

--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
Your best bet for Postgresql Administration

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Tony Caduto
Sent: 12 May 2006 13:40
To: Kenneth Downs; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

Part of the problem is that pgAdmin III seems to preload
object properties instead of pulling them in as you need them.
I have noticed many times in pgAdmin III that when a function
is edited and saved by someone else on a different
workstation I can't see those changes until I manually
refresh the object. When you have a ton of tables etc that
preloading/caching has to be taking up some time.

It does, for sure. On the other hand though, if you're connected to your
database via a slow network (working from home via modem or VPN for
example), it does mean that every click is instant rather than having to
wait for a query to execute - this is how pgAdmin I used to work, and
frustrated too many people which is why it was changed.

There's an up and downside to each design - just choose the tool that
works in the best way for you at the appropriate price for your wallet.

Regards, Dave

Tony Caduto wrote:

Dave Page wrote:

Only runs on Windows though doesn't it?

Regards, Dave

Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems
account for a trivial percent of the desktop market.

I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents 100%
of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning will be
deployed in the trivial percentage of zero.

Dave Page wrote:

Part of the problem is that pgAdmin III seems to preload
object properties instead of pulling them in as you need them.
I have noticed many times in pgAdmin III that when a function
is edited and saved by someone else on a different
workstation I can't see those changes until I manually
refresh the object. When you have a ton of tables etc that
preloading/caching has to be taking up some time.

It does, for sure. On the other hand though, if you're connected to your
database via a slow network (working from home via modem or VPN for
example), it does mean that every click is instant rather than having to
wait for a query to execute - this is how pgAdmin I used to work, and
frustrated too many people which is why it was changed.

There's an up and downside to each design - just choose the tool that
works in the best way for you at the appropriate price for your wallet.

Regards, Dave

Why not have it be an option as to how it loads table info? I've also
been looking for a decent GUI interface for postgres, but the knowledge
that
pgadmin III will want to load all of my table data every time I use the
app is definitely prohibitive for me as our db here at work is huge.
And, seriously,
are we still living at a time when connection speed should be considered
a deciding design factor? Yes, some people still work off of slow
connections,
but the vast majority of us who work in a professional environment most
definitely do not.

Thanks, Erik

On Fri, 2006-05-12 at 07:31 -0500, Tony Caduto wrote:

Dave Page wrote:

Only runs on Windows though doesn't it?

Regards, Dave

Hardly a limitation since Linux and other Unix based operating systems
account for a trivial percent of the desktop market. I would guess that
more regular people (NON FOSS developers) access Postgresql from a win32
Desktop not a Unix one.
When Linux gets above 20% it might make sense to make applications for
it, or if there was a thriving RAD IDE like Delphi. Mono is shaping up
and so is Lazarus, but
they are not there yet, and WXwidgets/Python etc is not productive at
all, and Java is slow.
By the way PGLA actually works OK with the latest version of WINE so it
can run on Linux, just not natively.

It runs like a dog in Wine and is extremely unstable in my experience.
The only thing I run under Wine is IE6 and I only do that because I need
to test webapps on it.

As for the desktop market, it may be true the Windows accounts for the
majority of the *entire* desktop market, but I'd be willing to bet that
the profile of the desktop market containing customers who would want or
need an RDBMS GUI would be very different. Everyone at my place of work
who would have a need for such an app runs linux, which would currently
put PG Lightning Admin out of the picture (which I might add is a Damn
Shame because it looks really nice).

I like many people dual boot Linux and I can tell you I spend most of my
time in win32 because applications I need don't exist for Linux.

Later,

--

Russ

Kenneth Downs wrote:

I guess it depends on your definition of trivial. Linux represents
100% of the desktops at Secure Data Software. Therefore lightning
will be deployed in the trivial percentage of zero.
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

Good for you,
You can rationalize it anyway you want, but linux has like 2 to 3
percent of the world wide desktop market and Apple has the next big
chunk followed by Windows with over 90%.

I like Linux as much as the next guy, but it's primary role for now is
on the server not the desktop.

You do realize that the original poster said he was running on Windows,
so why in the heck would he run a Linux Desktop?

Enough said.......

--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
Your best bet for Postgresql Administration

-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Jones [mailto:erik@myemma.com]
Sent: 12 May 2006 15:09
To: Dave Page
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

Why not have it be an option as to how it loads table info?

It's a fairly fundamental part of the design - such a change would be
major.

I've also been looking for a decent GUI interface for
postgres, but the knowledge that pgadmin III will want to
load all of my table data every time I use the app is
definitely prohibitive for me as our db here at work is huge.

It doesn't load 'all of your table data' - in fact it doesn't load *any*
user table data unless you specifically tell it to.

What it does is preload chunks of *meta* data - ie. Rows from pg_class,
pg_database etc.

For example, open a Database node and it'll preload the cast, language,
schema and if appropriate, Slony cluster meta data. Open a schema node
and it'll preload the aggregates, functions , domains etc in that and
only that schema.

And, seriously,
are we still living at a time when connection speed should be
considered a deciding design factor? Yes, some people still
work off of slow connections, but the vast majority of us who
work in a professional environment most definitely do not.

I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK) where the
cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new laptop every month (a
significant amount of money for a small company), and yes, I regularly
use servers on the other side of the world where the round trip time
etc. would make a query-per-click interface unusable.

Regards, Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
[mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Dave Page
Sent: 12 May 2006 15:46
To: Erik Jones
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] GUI Interface

I work in a professional environment in a country (the UK)
where the cost of a 2Mb leased line could buy you a new
laptop every month (a significant amount of money for a small
company), and yes, I regularly use servers on the other side
of the world where the round trip time etc. would make a
query-per-click interface unusable.

And I forgot to mention the remote users working from home via VPN over
a domestic ADSL line with only 256Kb/s upstream at 50:1 contention.

Regards, Dave