Survey: renaming/removing script binaries (createdb, createuser...)

Please let us know your meaning,

thanks Zdenek Kotala

1. c
2. a
3. other = "pginitdb", to be consistent with pgcreatedb,etc
4. a

Zdeněk Kotala wrote:

1) What type of names do you prefer?
-------------------------------

a) old notation - createdb, createuser ...
b) new one with pg_ prefix - pg_createdb, pg_creteuser ...
c) new one with pg prefix - pgcreatedb, pgcreateuser ...
d) remove them - psql is the solution
e) remove them - pgadmin is the solution

B

2) How often do you use these tools?
-----------------------------------

a) every day (e.g. in my cron)
b) one per week
c) one time
d) never

B

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
---------- --------------------------

a) initdb
b) pg_initdb
c) pg_init
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new functionality)
e) What is initdb? My start/stop script does it automatically.

B

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
-----------------------------

a) vacuumdb - shell command
b) VACUUM - SQL command
c) autovacuum
d) What is vacuum?

B & C

Colin

Zdeněk Kotala escribió:

Hello All,

I prepared patch for renaming postgreSQL script tools like createdb,
createuser, etc. to pg_createdb, pg_creteuser. Original names will be
kept for 2 or 3 following versions. The main reason for the patch is
to avoid possible clash of names with systems tools.

And after long discussion on patches and hackers list we have made a
decision than we need input from wide audience. This is a reason why I
prepare following surveys.

1) b
2) a
3) b
4) a and c

1) b
2) c
3) d
4) b & c

--
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On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:04 +0100
Zdeněk Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> wrote:

Please let us know your meaning,

I hope it is the right place where to post.

1) What type of names do you prefer?
c) new one with pg prefix - pgcreatedb, pgcreateuser ...

I'd like the idea of having one command + action as in
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-06/msg00025.php
and yeah I read the follow-up and Tom's comments on psql -c
but still
- maybe a pg[something] action may be better integrated with
bash auto-completion without rewriting a sql parser
- you could still have man pg[something]
- it may simplify inputting passwords
- it separates admin tasks from "sql coding"

2) How often do you use these tools?

a) every day (e.g. in my cron)

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?

d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new
functionality)

+ someone on the list pointed out consistency with 1)

AND ;)

e) What is initdb? My start/stop script does it
automatically.

4) How do you perform VACUUM?

c) autovacuum

my 0.2 €

--
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo
http://www.webthatworks.it

1. b
2. b
3. b
4. c

---------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond O'Donnell, Director of Music, Galway Cathedral, Ireland
rod@iol.ie
---------------------------------------------------------------

1. b
2. c
3. d
4. b and c

I do most of my admin using SQL these days. my preference would be
towards keeping them because they're nice in the beginning.

Sam

1) What type of names do you prefer?
-------------------------------

a.

2) How often do you use these tools?
-----------------------------------

b.

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
---------- --------------------------

d.

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
-----------------------------

a + b + c.
--
quicksil1er: "postgres is excellent, but like any DB it requires a
highly paid DBA. here's my CV!" :)
http://www.depesz.com/ - blog dla ciebie (i moje CV)

1.) b
2.) a
3.) b
4.) a+c

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:25:04 +0100 Zden__k Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> thought long, then sat down and wrote:

Hello All,

I prepared patch for renaming postgreSQL script tools like createdb, createuser,
etc. to pg_createdb, pg_creteuser. Original names will be kept for 2 or 3
following versions. The main reason for the patch is to avoid possible clash of
names with systems tools.

And after long discussion on patches and hackers list we have made a decision
than we need input from wide audience. This is a reason why I prepare following
surveys.

See:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2008-03/msg01006.php
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-07/msg00055.php

Please let us know your meaning,

thanks Zdenek Kotala

1) What type of names do you prefer?
-------------------------------

a) old notation - createdb, createuser ...
b) new one with pg_ prefix - pg_createdb, pg_creteuser ...
c) new one with pg prefix - pgcreatedb, pgcreateuser ...
d) remove them - psql is the solution
e) remove them - pgadmin is the solution

2) How often do you use these tools?
-----------------------------------

a) every day (e.g. in my cron)
b) one per week
c) one time
d) never

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
---------- --------------------------

a) initdb
b) pg_initdb
c) pg_init
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new functionality)
e) What is initdb? My start/stop script does it automatically.

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
-----------------------------

a) vacuumdb - shell command
b) VACUUM - SQL command
c) autovacuum
d) What is vacuum?

--
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Telefax: 0271 231 8608 Web: http://www.invenius.de
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Zdeněk Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@Sun.COM> writes:

1) What type of names do you prefer?

d) remove them - psql is the solution

2) How often do you use these tools?

d) never

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?

a) initdb

4) How do you perform VACUUM?

b) VACUUM - SQL command

--
Gregory Stark
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
Ask me about EnterpriseDB's 24x7 Postgres support!

1) What type of names do you prefer?
d) remove them - psql is the solution

2) How often do you use these tools?
a) every day (e.g. in my cron)

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new functionality)

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
a) vacuumdb - shell command

I like the idea of fewer tools.
Will change to do VACUUM from psql instead
/Björn Lundin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Joey K. <pguser@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Survey: renaming/removing script binaries (createdb,
createuser...)
To: Zdeněk Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@sun.com>

Please let us know your meaning,

thanks Zdenek Kotala

1) What type of names do you prefer?
-------------------------------

a) old notation - createdb, createuser ...
b) new one with pg_ prefix - pg_createdb, pg_creteuser ...
c) new one with pg prefix - pgcreatedb, pgcreateuser ...
d) remove them - psql is the solution
e) remove them - pgadmin is the solution

[b]

2) How often do you use these tools?
-----------------------------------

a) every day (e.g. in my cron)
b) one per week
c) one time
d) never

[a]
In cron
from commandline.
in shell scripts

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
---------- --------------------------

a) initdb
b) pg_initdb
c) pg_init
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new functionality)
e) What is initdb? My start/stop script does it automatically.

[c]

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
-----------------------------

a) vacuumdb - shell command
b) VACUUM - SQL command
c) autovacuum
d) What is vacuum?

[a], [b] and [c]
Depending on the situation. For example ifcustomers complain, we manually do
cia SQL.

If this is a consistent problem, we usr cron for vacuumdb.

If the database is not too loaded and supports autovacuum, we also have
autovacuum enabled.

We'd like to keep vacuumdb but maybe pg_vacuumdb?

Hope this helps.

Joey

On Mar 26, 2008, at 9:37 AM, björn lundin wrote:

1) What type of names do you prefer?
d) remove them - psql is the solution

2) How often do you use these tools?
a) every day (e.g. in my cron)

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new
functionality)

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
a) vacuumdb - shell command

I like the idea of fewer tools.
Will change to do VACUUM from psql instead

What's the psql equivalent of the "standard" use case of "vacuumdb -a"?
(If you don't know the answer, for both unix and windows, you don't get
to vote for removing vacuumdb).

Cheers,
Steve

1) What type of names do you prefer?
-------------------------------

a) old notation - createdb, createuser ...
b) new one with pg_ prefix - pg_createdb, pg_creteuser ...
c) new one with pg prefix - pgcreatedb, pgcreateuser ...
d) remove them - psql is the solution
e) remove them - pgadmin is the solution

b

2) How often do you use these tools?
-----------------------------------

a) every day (e.g. in my cron)
b) one per week
c) one time
d) never

b

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
---------- --------------------------

a) initdb
b) pg_initdb
c) pg_init
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new
functionality)
e) What is initdb? My start/stop script does it automatically.

d

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
-----------------------------

a) vacuumdb - shell command
b) VACUUM - SQL command
c) autovacuum
d) What is vacuum?

c

--
Diogo Biazus
diogo@softa.com.br
http://www.softa.com.br
http://www.postgresql.org.br

At 10:25a -0400 on Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Zdeněk Kotala wrote:

And after long discussion on patches and hackers list we have made a
decision than we need input from wide audience. This is a reason why
I prepare following surveys.

1. b
2. b
3. b (but whichever, just be consistent)
4. b & c

I don't care, really. The value of pg_* is that it'd obvious it's
Postgres related, it'd be consistent with at least two other APIs I
already know, it'd be easy for noobs to find with "pg_<tab><tab>", and
leaves room in a cooperative sense with other DBs that might eventually
want to do something similar.

That said I'm with Sam Mason: it's a wash if I use SQL or them.
However, they're very nice for beginners, and getting beginners to
start with a project is 3/4ths the battle in'nit?

Kevin

On Mar 26, 2008, at 7:25 AM, Zdeněk Kotala wrote:

Hello All,

I prepared patch for renaming postgreSQL script tools like createdb,
createuser, etc. to pg_createdb, pg_creteuser. Original names will
be kept for 2 or 3 following versions. The main reason for the patch
is to avoid possible clash of names with systems tools.

There are no existing clashes with system tools that I'm aware of. Are
there any? Most of the clashes are with other installations of
postgresql installed on the same machine, so if name clashes is the
real reason for the change, then the version number or port number of
the installation should be part of the command name - pg_8.3.1_psql,
and so on.

The normal way of dealing with multiple installations and name clashes
would be to set your shell path appropriately, though, surely? It's a
more normal way of dealing with that than renaming the actual binaries.

If, on the other hand, the main reason behind name changes were to
make the naming more intuitive for new users then changing the names
to something more appropriate might be useful. Perhaps something like
changing "postmaster" to "postgresqld", "pg_ctl" to
"safe_postgresqld", change "psql" to "postgresql", replace "createuser
-s monty" with "postgresql --user=root", followed by "GRANT ALL
PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO 'monty'@'localhost';" and so on.

Cheers,
Steve

On Wednesday 26 March 2008, Zdeněk Kotala <Zdenek.Kotala@sun.com> wrote:

1) What type of names do you prefer?
-------------------------------

a) old notation - createdb, createuser ...
b) new one with pg_ prefix - pg_createdb, pg_creteuser ...
c) new one with pg prefix - pgcreatedb, pgcreateuser ...
d) remove them - psql is the solution
e) remove them - pgadmin is the solution

c

Actually, I like a) because I'm used to them and they're in a lot of
scripts, but I can see advantages to making them look pg-specific.

2) How often do you use these tools?
-----------------------------------

a) every day (e.g. in my cron)
b) one per week
c) one time
d) never

a

3) What name of initdb do you prefer?
---------- --------------------------

a) initdb
b) pg_initdb
c) pg_init
d) pg_ctl -d <dir> init (replace initdb with pg_ctl new functionality)
e) What is initdb? My start/stop script does it automatically.

b

See notes on #1 though.

4) How do you perform VACUUM?
-----------------------------

a) vacuumdb - shell command
b) VACUUM - SQL command
c) autovacuum
d) What is vacuum?

c,a,b

--
Alan

At 11:04a -0400 on Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote:

- maybe a pg[something] action may be better integrated with
bash auto-completion without rewriting a sql parser

$ cat ~/.hypothetical_bashrc
...
complete -o default -F postgres_completion_function pg_cmd
...

$ pg_cmd<tab><tab>
CREATE ALTER VACUUM ...

$ pg_cmd create<tab><tab>
DATABASE LANGUAGE USER

Because it'd rely on a bash function installed somewhere in the
user's session, it'd be perhaps not as universal as an installed binary.
However, on a case-by-case basis, this can certainly work.

Kevin

On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Zdenk Kotala wrote: