The first dedicated PostgreSQL forum

On 13/11/2010 03:43, Elliot Chance wrote:

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the mailing list :)

As of today I have started the first dedicated postgres forum at:
http://forums.postgresql.com.au

Hi there,

Without in any way running down the effort you've put into the above,
I'm just curious as to what it's meant to achieve that the mailing list
and wiki don't.

Ray.

--
Raymond O'Donnell :: Galway :: Ireland
rod@iol.ie

Hey,

Yeah, we feel here at home and don't need forum.

2010/11/13 Raymond O'Donnell <rod@iol.ie>

On 13/11/2010 03:43, Elliot Chance wrote:

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the mailing list :)

As of today I have started the first dedicated postgres forum at:
http://forums.postgresql.com.au

Hi there,

Without in any way running down the effort you've put into the above, I'm
just curious as to what it's meant to achieve that the mailing list and wiki
don't.

Ray.

--
Raymond O'Donnell :: Galway :: Ireland
rod@iol.ie

--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

--
// Dmitriy.

Le 13/11/2010 17:43, Raymond O'Donnell a �crit :

On 13/11/2010 03:43, Elliot Chance wrote:

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the mailing list :)

As of today I have started the first dedicated postgres forum at:
http://forums.postgresql.com.au

Hi there,

Without in any way running down the effort you've put into the above,
I'm just curious as to what it's meant to achieve that the mailing list
and wiki don't.

Actually, you could be quite surprised on the number of people not
willing to use a mailing list, and ready to use web forums.

Just to take an example, pgsql-fr-generale (the french general mailing
list) is really quiet. Usually not more than 10 threads per month. But
the french web forums (http://forums.postgresql.fr) are much much more used.

--
Guillaume
http://www.postgresql.fr
http://dalibo.com

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Guillaume Lelarge wrote:

Actually, you could be quite surprised on the number of people not willing
to use a mailing list, and ready to use web forums.

I think this is a generational thing. Most of us who've been running linux
or a *nix for a while prefer to have the information pushed to us via a mail
list. Those who are more used to doing everything with a GUI and pointing
device seem to prefer pulling information by visiting a Web site. I much
prefer having information pushed to me, and that's one reason (the
noise-to-signal ratio being another) why I no longer use Usenet news groups
as much as I did.

When this same issue came up on other mail lists someone would always
point out that there are websites (gmane, perhaps?) that allow a Web BUI
interface to mail lists.

Rich

Rich Shepard <rshepard@appl-ecosys.com> writes:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Guillaume Lelarge wrote:

Actually, you could be quite surprised on the number of people not willing
to use a mailing list, and ready to use web forums.

I think this is a generational thing.

I'm not nearly as concerned about whether there are forums as about
having "rogue" forums outside the postgresql.org domain. People could
misperceive such things as having some official status, which would lead
to conclusions like "postgres must be dead because there's no traffic in
this forum". It needs to be connected to the community as a whole, and
some random guy deciding to create his own forum doesn't sound like a
recipe for getting to that.

(BTW, if memory serves, this has happened before, with no positive
long-term results.)

regards, tom lane

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Tom Lane wrote:

I'm not nearly as concerned about whether there are forums as about having
"rogue" forums outside the postgresql.org domain. People could
misperceive such things as having some official status, which would lead
to conclusions like "postgres must be dead because there's no traffic in
this forum". It needs to be connected to the community as a whole, and
some random guy deciding to create his own forum doesn't sound like a
recipe for getting to that.

Tom,

A reasonable concern. I was certainly not advocating or supporting the
idea of a Web-based forum. As an old curmudgeon I much prefer mail lists.

Rich

On 13 November 2010 18:49, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:

Rich Shepard <rshepard@appl-ecosys.com> writes:

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Guillaume Lelarge wrote:

Actually, you could be quite surprised on the number of people not

willing

to use a mailing list, and ready to use web forums.

I think this is a generational thing.

I'm not nearly as concerned about whether there are forums as about
having "rogue" forums outside the postgresql.org domain. People could
misperceive such things as having some official status, which would lead
to conclusions like "postgres must be dead because there's no traffic in
this forum". It needs to be connected to the community as a whole, and
some random guy deciding to create his own forum doesn't sound like a
recipe for getting to that.

(BTW, if memory serves, this has happened before, with no positive
long-term results.)

Yes, that was at postgresqlforums.com I think, which wasn't very popular.
Not that the guy who ran it wasn't helpful though. I've noticed a similar
problem with MSSQL, various scattered forums around with no sense of a
focused community.

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list, so
signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if you're
not already signed up), but without receiving any emails. Messages posted
to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice versa. And such a system
would need to support cross-posting too somehow.

--
Thom Brown
Twitter: @darkixion
IRC (freenode): dark_ixion
Registered Linux user: #516935

Thom Brown <thom@linux.com> writes:

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list, so
signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if you're
not already signed up), but without receiving any emails. Messages posted
to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice versa.

That would be cool. Wonder if there's something like that out there already.

And such a system
would need to support cross-posting too somehow.

Dunno, seems like we've been discouraging cross-posting lately anyhow.
I wouldn't see anything wrong with forum posts only being able to go to
one mailing list, as long as there were a forum corresponding to each
active list.

regards, tom lane

On Sat, 13 Nov 2010, Tom Lane wrote:

That would be cool. Wonder if there's something like that out there already.

I don't know if BUI-based subscription is supported, but there are
reported solutions. Take a look at gmane.org (mail<->Usenet news groups) and
see if that might work.

Rich

On 11/13/2010 11:24 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Thom Brown <thom@linux.com> writes:

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list, so
signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if you're
not already signed up), but without receiving any emails. Messages posted
to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice versa.

That would be cool. Wonder if there's something like that out there already.

It exists -- not sure what they are using, but for example the Users
forum here -- http://forum.sipfoundry.org/index.php -- is
bidirectionally linked with sipx-users@list.sipfoundry.org

Joe

--
Joe Conway
credativ LLC: http://www.credativ.us
Linux, PostgreSQL, and general Open Source
Training, Service, Consulting, & 24x7 Support

On 13 November 2010 19:38, Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com> wrote:

On 11/13/2010 11:24 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Thom Brown <thom@linux.com> writes:

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list,

so

signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if

you're

not already signed up), but without receiving any emails. Messages

posted

to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice versa.

That would be cool. Wonder if there's something like that out there

already.

It exists -- not sure what they are using, but for example the Users
forum here -- http://forum.sipfoundry.org/index.php -- is
bidirectionally linked with sipx-users@list.sipfoundry.org

FUDForum by the look of it: http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php

--
Thom Brown
Twitter: @darkixion
IRC (freenode): dark_ixion
Registered Linux user: #516935

On Sat, 2010-11-13 at 19:21 +0100, Guillaume Lelarge wrote:

Le 13/11/2010 17:43, Raymond O'Donnell a écrit :

On 13/11/2010 03:43, Elliot Chance wrote:

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the mailing list :)

As of today I have started the first dedicated postgres forum at:
http://forums.postgresql.com.au

Hi there,

Without in any way running down the effort you've put into the above,
I'm just curious as to what it's meant to achieve that the mailing list
and wiki don't.

Actually, you could be quite surprised on the number of people not
willing to use a mailing list, and ready to use web forums.

Just to take an example, pgsql-fr-generale (the french general mailing
list) is really quiet. Usually not more than 10 threads per month. But
the french web forums (http://forums.postgresql.fr) are much much more used.

Yep and if we ever want to get Drupal developers (as an example) a forum
is the way to go. They don't like mailing lists either.

JD

--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt

On 13 November 2010 19:44, Thom Brown <thom@linux.com> wrote:

On 13 November 2010 19:38, Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com> wrote:

On 11/13/2010 11:24 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Thom Brown <thom@linux.com> writes:

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list,

so

signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if

you're

not already signed up), but without receiving any emails. Messages

posted

to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice versa.

That would be cool. Wonder if there's something like that out there

already.

It exists -- not sure what they are using, but for example the Users
forum here -- http://forum.sipfoundry.org/index.php -- is
bidirectionally linked with sipx-users@list.sipfoundry.org

FUDForum by the look of it: http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php

And mailing list integration looks pretty straightforward and well
supported: http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php/Mailing_List_Manager

<http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php/Mailing_List_Manager&gt;Feasible? Desirable?

--
Thom Brown
Twitter: @darkixion
IRC (freenode): dark_ixion
Registered Linux user: #516935

I've used lists where the the line between forum and mailing list is blurred. See:

http://www.cocoabuilder.com/

This is actually a web interface for a couple of mailing lists, and is a great tool for searching past posts. You can't post to the web site though - it is strictly a third-party web interface for the lists, but it's my first go-to for searching.

I realize you can search this list here:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/

but a more polished web interface of the list I think would satisfy everyone.

BTW, I performed a search on that page for the word "replication" and the result was very slow ("Searching in 863,821 pages took 25.1127 seconds").

Demitri

I would like to see this type of setup used.  I use my cell phone for about
90% of my internet access during the day when I'm on the road.  I've found
in the past that forums usually have better search tools and they also will
not fill up my email address.  I find many things in these forums which are
great to be able to save and search on but would like to get rid of the
posts from my emails.  I don't want to not have access to them because when
I'm board I can start to read through threads that interest me.  I just
don't want to have to download the emails to do that.

Best Regards

Mike Gould

"Thom Brown" <thom@linux.com> wrote:

On 13 November 2010 19:44, Thom Brown <<a
href="mailto:thom@linux.com">thom@linux.com</a>> wrote:
<blockquote style="" class="gmail_quote">

On 13 November 2010 19:38, Joe Conway <<a target="_blank"
href="mailto:mail@joeconway.com">mail@joeconway.com</a>> wrote:
<blockquote style="" class="gmail_quote">
On 11/13/2010 11:24 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Thom Brown <<a target="_blank"

href="mailto:thom@linux.com">thom@linux.com</a>> writes:

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list,

so

signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if

you're

not already signed up), but without receiving any emails.  Messages

posted

to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice versa.

That would be cool.  Wonder if there's something like that out there

already.
It exists -- not sure what they are using, but for example the Users
forum here -- <a target="_blank"
href="http://forum.sipfoundry.org/index.php&quot;&gt;http://forum.sipfoundry.org/index.php&lt;/a&gt;
-- is
bidirectionally linked with <a target="_blank"
href="mailto:sipx-users@list.sipfoundry.org">sipx-users@list.sipfoundry.org</a>

 FUDForum by the look of it: <a target="_blank"
href="http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php&quot;&gt;http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php&lt;/a&gt;
  

And mailing list integration looks pretty straightforward and well
supported: <a
href="http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php/Mailing_List_Manager&quot;&gt;http://cvs.prohost.org/index.php/Mailing_List_Manager&lt;/a&gt;
 Feasible?  Desirable?

--
Thom Brown
Twitter: @darkixion
IRC (freenode): dark_ixion
Registered Linux user: #516935

On Saturday 13 November 2010 1:52:11 pm thatsanicehatyouhave@mac.com wrote:

I've used lists where the the line between forum and mailing list is
blurred. See:

http://www.cocoabuilder.com/

This is actually a web interface for a couple of mailing lists, and is a
great tool for searching past posts. You can't post to the web site though
- it is strictly a third-party web interface for the lists, but it's my
first go-to for searching.

I realize you can search this list here:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/

but a more polished web interface of the list I think would satisfy
everyone.

BTW, I performed a search on that page for the word "replication" and the
result was very slow ("Searching in 863,821 pages took 25.1127 seconds").

Demitri

You must have hit a batch of slow electrons :) My result:
"Searching in 863,821 pages took 0.84438 seconds."

--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@gmail.com

I must say that I come from a generation not used to mailing lists, but have
adopted them for PostgreSQL recently.

One of the main things I don't like is that my email address is now out
there for crawlers to capture (thanks to the archive) and spam. For this
reason I use an alias email address which is a slight shame because I would
prefer to use my attributable, professional email address. Do the long
standing members not have problems with spam?

On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@gmail.com>wrote:

On 11/13/2010 3:31 PM, LazyTrek wrote:

Do the long standing members not have problems with spam?

As you can see I use a list alias. However, in my experience the notion
that you can avoid spam by not frequenting mailing lists is quaint to
say the least. The spammers have had ways to find, steal and guess your
email address for many years. I'll say that if you use an address at all
(meaning, you send people email using it), then you'll receive spam (and
lots of it).

On 11/14/2010 03:13 AM, Thom Brown wrote:

It's a shame that a forum can't act as a front-end for a mailing list,
so signing up to the forum actually signs you up to a mailing list (if
you're not already signed up), but without receiving any emails.
Messages posted to the forum would get sent to the list, and vice
versa. And such a system would need to support cross-posting too somehow.

It can. The glassfish forums are bidirectionally gatewayed to the
mailing list in just such a manner, and it works astonishingly well.
Before using those I would've been opposed to the idea, but now ... it
doesn't seem so bad.

--
Craig Ringer