http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.php
I've always been uneasy about the notice at the end of the installation
process that asks the user to register at
http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.php
Now some users have also complained to me about that, so I'm wondering
what others think about it.
First, I think collecting addresses from users is something that an
open-source project should never do. It's what makes them stand out from
packages with annoying license requirements.
Second, do we really get anything useful out of those registrations?
Maybe in the early days, anyone who was insane enough to try PostgreSQL
was worth rejoicing about, but now I think we get a pretty good overview
over the uses in other ways.
Third, the method is flawed, because only users that install source
packages manually are invited to register. I believe that the majority of
users use prepackaged versions.
Fourth, the registration is run not by the project but by a commercial
company. That seems inappropriate for all the reasons you can imagine.
Comments?
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Eisentraut [mailto:peter_e@gmx.net]
Sent: 12 October 2003 14:02
To: PostgreSQL Development
Subject: [HACKERS] http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.phpI've always been uneasy about the notice at the end of the
installation process that asks the user to register athttp://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.php
Now some users have also complained to me about that, so I'm
wondering what others think about it.First, I think collecting addresses from users is something
that an open-source project should never do. It's what makes
them stand out from packages with annoying license requirements.
Agreed.
Second, do we really get anything useful out of those registrations?
Maybe in the early days, anyone who was insane enough to try
PostgreSQL was worth rejoicing about, but now I think we get
a pretty good overview over the uses in other ways.
No, even I can't get to the data. See your fourth reason.
Third, the method is flawed, because only users that install
source packages manually are invited to register. I believe
that the majority of users use prepackaged versions.
Agreed.
Fourth, the registration is run not by the project but by a
commercial company. That seems inappropriate for all the
reasons you can imagine.
Agreed.
Comments?
I think it should be removed.
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
I've always been uneasy about the notice at the end of the installation
process that asks the user to register at
http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.php
There was discussion of rewording that message some time ago, but
nothing happened. (I think Vince volunteered to prepare a new draft,
and then disappeared...)
I agree that there's no need to ask people to register. I think it'd
be okay to have a message that suggests visiting www.postgresql.org.
Want to propose some new text?
regards, tom lane
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Fourth, the registration is run not by the project but by a commercial
company. That seems inappropriate for all the reasons you can imagine.
To be honest, I don't know why it was every put on pgsq.com in the first
place, and think the whole thing should be re-written ... the original
purpose was to get an idea of who was using what version, as well as to
get a feel for the size of dataases ppl are using ... but, there is no way
of changing ones data after the fact, so, of course, when you upgrade you
can't reflect that ...
Personally, I think the work on case studies going on right now are of
more value ... at they provide more info, and more an understanding of why
...
Tom Lane writes:
I agree that there's no need to ask people to register. I think it'd
be okay to have a message that suggests visiting www.postgresql.org.
The text already suggests www.postgresql.org, so there's nothing to do
besides removing the register bit, if we agree to do so.
However, I think the message is a bit pointless altogether. First, only
those that install from source see it, so it's not the place to
communicate vital information. Second, how did they ever get the source
code if not via www.postgresql.org? Third, that same piece of information
is contained in README and INSTALL, so it's impossible to miss. So the
only group of people we could target with this text is those that 1)
install random source packages that they got from somewhere they don't
remember, 2) don't read README and INSTALL files even if they have
questions, and 3) don't know how to use a search engine, if they really
have trouble finding us.
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
However, I think the message is a bit pointless altogether.
You have a point. Anyone against ripping it out entirely? If so,
what needs to be said in this message?
regards, tom lane
On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 00:23, Tom Lane wrote:
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
However, I think the message is a bit pointless altogether.
You have a point. Anyone against ripping it out entirely? If so,
what needs to be said in this message?
Someone could have downloaded the package from sourceforge/freshmeat, so
I don't think it hurts to have a pointer to postgresql.org. What might
be better than a link for the submit page would just be a blurb
mentioning we're always looking for new case studies from folks who are
using postgresql, and perhaps point them some place for that. What I'd
like to see added to the message is a reminder to run initdb...
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert Treat writes:
Someone could have downloaded the package from sourceforge/freshmeat, so
I don't think it hurts to have a pointer to postgresql.org.
Those two places already have prominent links to the home page.
What might
be better than a link for the submit page would just be a blurb
mentioning we're always looking for new case studies from folks who are
using postgresql, and perhaps point them some place for that.
See my last post: This is not the place to print any project-related
messages. You're not going to get a representative audience.
What I'd
like to see added to the message is a reminder to run initdb...
Anyone who is completely clueless about PostgreSQL will have to read
INSTALL anyway, which gives more complete information. It's a bit more
involved than just entering "initdb": you need to set up users and
directory permissions. I don't think duplicating that information would
be useful.
--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
Le Lundi 13 Octobre 2003 14:45, Robert Treat a écrit :
Someone could have downloaded the package from sourceforge/freshmeat, so
I don't think it hurts to have a pointer to postgresql.org. What might
be better than a link for the submit page would just be a blurb
mentioning we're always looking for new case studies from folks who are
using postgresql, and perhaps point them some place for that. What I'd
like to see added to the message is a reminder to run initdb...
In France, according to the "Loi informatique et liberté", users have a right
to access their personal data. As a result, every web form must display a
warning which reminds users that they can access their personal data.
This is not a potential problem for PostgreSQL.inc, but for Linux vendors who
release PostgreSQL (RedHat, Mandrake, etc...) in France. The fine can be
quite large. Also, a judge may stop immediately the release of products
including PostgreSQL.
Cheers, Jean-Michel
Tom Lane wrote:
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
However, I think the message is a bit pointless altogether.
You have a point. Anyone against ripping it out entirely? If so,
what needs to be said in this message?
Let's remove it.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Jean-Michel POURE kirjutas E, 13.10.2003 kell 16:20:
Le Lundi 13 Octobre 2003 14:45, Robert Treat a écrit :
Someone could have downloaded the package from sourceforge/freshmeat, so
I don't think it hurts to have a pointer to postgresql.org. What might
be better than a link for the submit page would just be a blurb
mentioning we're always looking for new case studies from folks who are
using postgresql, and perhaps point them some place for that. What I'd
like to see added to the message is a reminder to run initdb...In France, according to the "Loi informatique et liberté", users have a right
to access their personal data. As a result, every web form must display a
warning which reminds users that they can access their personal data.
Even if no personal data is entered or queried ?
This is not a potential problem for PostgreSQL.inc, but for Linux vendors who
release PostgreSQL (RedHat, Mandrake, etc...) in France. The fine can be
quite large. Also, a judge may stop immediately the release of products
including PostgreSQL.
Do we need special NOTICE for French users telling them "In case you
have entered some personal data you can access it by doing a SELECT
query" after each INSERT/UPDATE to be legally sound in France ?
This could then be automatically enabled by LC_ALL=fr .
----------------
Hannu
-----Original Message-----
From: Hannu Krosing [mailto:hannu@tm.ee]
Sent: 13 October 2003 18:00
To: jm@poure.com
Cc: PostgreSQL Development
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] http://www.pgsql.com/register/submit.phpDo we need special NOTICE for French users telling them "In
case you have entered some personal data you can access it by
doing a SELECT query" after each INSERT/UPDATE to be legally
sound in France ?
No more so than would be required under the Data Protection Act in the
UK, but as the project and pgsql.com servers are neither in France or
the UK, the content on them doesn't have to comply with those laws -
though in the interests of privacy and general good practice we should
probably try to do so.
Of course, the mirrors are a different issue altogether. Currently I
guess it's up to the mirror operators to let us know if anything doesn't
comply with their local laws.
Regards, Dave.
Import Notes
Resolved by subject fallback
Le Lundi 13 Octobre 2003 21:28, Dave Page a écrit :
No more so than would be required under the Data Protection Act in the
UK, but as the project and pgsql.com servers are neither in France or
the UK, the content on them doesn't have to comply with those laws.
RedHat is a French company in France (as well as Mandrake). The law does not
care for the location of servers, mirrors, etc... If a French company asks to
register, it shall obey the laws. PostgreSQL inc. is not at stake here.
though in the interests of privacy and general good practice we should
probably try to do so.
Agreed. Good practice is the beginning of democracy.
Cheers,
Jean-Michel