FREE hosting platforms with PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat, ecc.?

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani
<fernando.pianegiani@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
(or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be
installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL be
directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in the
middle.

Thank you very much in advance.

Kind regards.

Fernando Pianegiani

Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post
only to it.

I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if
you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features
you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get
compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a
FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they
explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your
resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many
clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat,
PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general
your clients will not be happy.

Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the
many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people
off.

Allan.

Hello,

thank you for your answer. Sorry for my cross posting.

Are you in any business about hosting platforms?? ;-)

Don't forget that the Internet is free, that youtube is free and that this
mailing list is free and that also MySQL is free. But, not all the services
that appear free are really for free. Behind them there is for sure a
business.

Fernando

Extreme cross posting, you may need to elect one mailing list and post
only to it.

I think you may not get good offering for what you are looking for if
you are only interested in FREE hosting having all those features
you've mentioned. The hosting services do have to somehow get
compensation for their overheads, this would mean either offering a
FREE service for a limited period and/or requiring that they
explicitly add as many of their advertisements as possible to your
resulting web pages, not to mention they will try to place as many
clients as possible on modest hardware, your ability to manage Tomcat,
PostgreSQL will also be very limited in such environments, in general
your clients will not be happy.

Also the FREE services of this kind have by now been exploited by the
many individuals who provide websites that are aimed at ripping people
off.

Allan.

--
Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
To make changes to your subscription:
http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Allan Kamau <kamauallan@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Fernando Pianegiani
<fernando.pianegiani@gmail.com

wrote:
Hello,

do you know any FREE hosting platforms where PostgreSQL, Java SDK, Tomcat
(or other web servers) can be already found installed or where they can be
installed from scratch? In possible, it would be better if the PostgreSQL

be

directly accessible by my servlet, without any web service/PHP script in

the

Exuse me, PostgreSQL is completely free, not MySQL.. :-D

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Fernando Pianegiani <
fernando.pianegiani@gmail.com> wrote:

Well,

I am from the hosting business, and can assure you, what you are looking for does not exist.
This configuration requires specialists on the provider side, which are expensive. They
need to eat too.

And history teaches, that even if it would exist, you should not put anything meaningful on it,
because they surely will go out of business soon.

Antonio.

Op 06-08-11 10:02, Fernando Pianegiani schreef:

Thak you Antonio.

After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the
hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of
different nature).

I need to eat too, for this reason I cannot pay for an hosting platform
after that my funded research project ended.

Fernando

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Antonio Goméz Soto <
antonio.gomez.soto@gmail.com> wrote:

Open Source is about sharing ideas and source code that has no cost in
copying as soon as it is once invented. The link you are providing is
the same thing. All information about the chip is open. But that doesn't
mean that anyone will send you a chip for free.

To host a project on the web needs resourses like electric power,
computor hardware, cooling hardware for the server room. Server rooms,
people willing to get out of bed in the middle of the night to fix a
problem to keep up the up time and so on. Those resourses is not
possible to just copy for free. Those resourses are bound to the service
you get and not just to the idea about the service.

There is something else to note. The open sourse software also cost a
lot to develop. The idea is just that if a lot of people share what they
develop for their costumers or for their own sake that will gain the
development for everybody. But it is still a cost someone have to take
in terms of time or paying a developer.

So, I think the seeking for free in terms of no cost is quite provoking
on a list like this. Open Source is about sharing ideas not giving
things away for free. That is just a great side effect that what can be
copied without cost is shared without cost.

But so fare there is no technology to copy the hardware, server rooms,
internet bandwidth and so on for no cost.

Regards

Nicklas Avén

Since this thread is already top-post...

One of the reasons software can be "free" is because people are able to make money doing things like hosting and consulting.

If you are looking for charity because you are poor, or what you want to do has little commercial value, you would be wise to propose what it is you want to actually accomplish and the specific resources you likely need. Showing effort on your part will project professionalism as opposed to the free-loader personality that you show when you simply ask for free stuff. Simply pointing out that you need to eat as the reason why you need free hosting makes you look foolish. The fact that you cross-posted projects disrespect for the very communities providing the "free" stuff you want to use.

I'm sorry your research GRANT expired but you should focus on either obtaining a new grant or how to earn a regular income. If you are starting your own business the reality is that you need funds as opposed to free hosting. Funds will get you both physical (hosting) services and access to expertise.

That is all the personal/professional advice I'm am willing to give right now; I need to go fix myself lunch.

David J.

On Aug 6, 2011, at 9:49, Fernando Pianegiani <fernando.pianegiani@gmail.com> wrote:

After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature).

While the plans may be free, the actual hardware sure as hell won't be.

--
Scott Ribe
scott_ribe@elevated-dev.com
http://www.elevated-dev.com/
(303) 722-0567 voice

Dear David, Nicklas,

I think that this is not the right place where to discuss about this topic,
but I have to try to give you an answer.

PostgreSQL is not only open source, like MySQL is, but also free. This means
that people who don't develop neither a line of code of PostgreSQL (or just
some few lines of it) can use it to do what they want, even money, without
having the obligation to provide back 1 cent to the PostgreSQL community.
That's incredible I know, but it is so. And why? I don't know exactly, but I
know that there are several reasons that are not very "transparent". I can
try to give my interpretation hopping that it is the real one or in any case
thinking that it should be the correct one. If people who develop PostgreSQL
make it free, people who don't develop PostgreSQL but who use it for their
research projects or business can make available the results of their
projects also to the developers of PostgreSQL, but overall to the worldwide
community. And so, in case for example a developer of PostgreSQL or any
other person should have a health problem, he can hope that his hospital
uses the results of a research project got also with the help of PostgreSQL
or of some other free technology.

I think the previous one is the philosophy that should be behind the words
"open source" and "free". In all the other cases there are in my opinion
interests that should be better clarified.

If we do something for free for other people, then they can do something for
other people using for free our results, and so on...the alternatives are
under our eyes, that is the jungle of the market and the worldwide crisis.
So David, don't worry for my activity of research, instead you should be
seriously preoccupied if you do business. Moreover, the fact that my project
ended could be in case an additional problem for both of us and not only if
we should have problems of health strictly inherent to the results of
research coming from a possible development of my old project. Obviously, I
hope no for all of us. :-)

David, Nicklas, if you make money by using PostgreSQL and you want to be
really honest (as you claim honesty from me and from my work activity),
please count that money and give the right percentage of it to the
PostgreSQL community, but considering also who spent more time, resources
like electric power, computer hardware, etc. than the others in developing
it. In this way if you develop PostgreSQL, then you too can get your right
percentage from you and from the other developers.

Dear Scott, Niklas, you are right, the components and the resources
necessary to manufacture the solutions developed within the arduino project
are not for free. Only the schematics, the gerbers, etc. are for free.

Finally, the world is full of companies that make available for free their
hardware/software/human resources. Probably also you use them every day for
free (e.g., the media in general) or you store your data for free in part of
those resources (facebook, youtube, just to do general examples), but those
resources are not really "for free", those companies find the way to gain a
lot of money with the fact that you access to their resources.

In any case, excuse me if I have hurted your's feelings. My intention was
not to ask for a free hosting platform (free stuff, etc.) to the PostgreSQL
community, but I simply asked if the community knows anybody who provides a
service of free hosting, supposing that in some way the provider of that
hosting service would have earned his right income from me in some way (e.g.
a banner installed on my PC or other similar business). Fortunately up to
now I have never asked for charity dear David and I hope to have not to do
it in the future.

Have a good dinner!

Fernando

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 5:35 PM, David Johnston <polobo@yahoo.com> wrote:

Please, behave nice and stick to the subject.

Mailing list is not the place for this kind of talk.

Sincerely,

Dusan

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Fernando Pianegiani <
fernando.pianegiani@gmail.com> wrote:

I hope I am not feeding a troll here.

The economic model behind PostgreSQL is a very good one. Here is my
understanding of it. Various people in the community cooperate but
they also sell products (EnterpriseDB, Green Plum) based on the
codebase along with their proprietary enhancements. Others sell
services including hosting and consulting. In general anyone who does
not share everything practical ends up paying for it later in terms of
internal maintenance overhead. Everyone benefits.

The wonderful thing about open source software is that every one of us
owns the means of production not in a collective or a government but
individually. I can take PostgreSQL and make a living off it. You
can take my program that runs on it (LedgerSMB) and make a living off
it. We can take these pieces of software and use them to provide
services to others. The barrier to getting into business for yourself
is very low.

In my view, if you don't want to pay for hosting and you need all
these features, you probably don't really need hosting. The only way
you will get hosting is if you convince someone that taking you on
benefits them more than the costs (either by paying them or making the
case that it's a good business idea to take you on), or ---- the
wonderful thing about free and unfettered access to the means of
production --- you can set up your own system with all these
technologies. That's the free hosting solution that might work best
for you.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers

Hello Fernando,

I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got
here. The thing that has always appealed to me about the
free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and
mutual help that many involved exhibit.

You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who
call someone a "freeloader" when they themselves use free
software in profit making ventures without sharing their
profits with the software's developers and contributors.

Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively
to your post. I wish you success in your search.

It is not my intention to continue this discussion within this mailing list,
so please stop to reply or reply just to me. Otherwise I have to answer
again to the community and I don't want to do it. :-)

Dear Chris, thank you. I will answer to you in the following.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Chris Travers <chris.travers@gmail.com>wrote:

I hope I am not feeding a troll here.

The economic model behind PostgreSQL is a very good one. Here is my
understanding of it. Various people in the community cooperate but
they also sell products (EnterpriseDB, Green Plum) based on the
codebase along with their proprietary enhancements. Others sell
services including hosting and consulting. In general anyone who does
not share everything practical ends up paying for it later in terms of
internal maintenance overhead. Everyone benefits.

The wonderful thing about open source software is that every one of us
owns the means of production not in a collective or a government but
individually. I can take PostgreSQL and make a living off it. You
can take my program that runs on it (LedgerSMB) and make a living off
it. We can take these pieces of software and use them to provide
services to others. The barrier to getting into business for yourself
is very low.

It's impossible that everyone benefits proportionally to his own effort of
development. In this sense the model is not "right". But this is the rule of
the open source model and it is OK because the rule is accepted by all the
developers.

In my view, if you don't want to pay for hosting and you need all
these features, you probably don't really need hosting. The only way
you will get hosting is if you convince someone that taking you on
benefits them more than the costs (either by paying them or making the
case that it's a good business idea to take you on), or ---- the
wonderful thing about free and unfettered access to the means of
production --- you can set up your own system with all these
technologies. That's the free hosting solution that might work best
for you.

Simply I don't know how the business works for the hosting platforms. Or
better, now I have understood it. :-) For this reason I asked my question. I
supposed that it was a business similar to the one existing for "File
Hosting".

Thank you for your support. :-)

Fernando

Hello Fernando,

I was sorry to read the harsh responses your request got
here. The thing that has always appealed to me about the
free software movement is the spirit of cooperation and
mutual help that many involved exhibit.

You quite rightly point out the hypocrisy of those who
call someone a "freeloader" when they themselves use free
software in profit making ventures without sharing their
profits with the software's developers and contributors.

Please be assured that not everyone here reacted negatively
to your post. I wish you success in your search.

On Aug 6, 2011, at 18:03, Stuart McGraw <smcg2297@frii.com> wrote:

My point, while coming across a little harsh apparently, is that emphasis on requiring a free service projects a certain personality. Even just adding "or low cost" would have helped. That said, it wasn't the original request the got me to respond but the part about needing to eat. I know "we" started it with the comment about why there are no free hosting providers and I am just as guilty for adding to it.

In all, though, I didn't mean to say anyone IS a free-loader only that you can be perceived as one and such perceptions can suppress otherwise useful responses. In the end everyone free-loads and is taken advantage of at the same time in many different areas; and any judgements should be made only when many facts are known (if ever).

I apologize for my tone earlier but to be honest this is probably one of the calmest flame-wars I've ever seen :)

The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free. And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back into the original.

But, there are a number of companies that do what you need for a price. If you feel what you are doing is important it should at least be worth your time to talk to these companies and see what arrangements can be made instead of dismissing them outright because they charge for their services. You may find someone inclined to take on pro-bono work for a good cause; especially if your needs are modest. In short, ask for everything and then perform the filtering yourself instead of asking others to filter for you - only you know what your actual situation is which makes anyone else's filtering only an uninformed guess.

David J.

On 08/06/11 4:40 PM, David Johnston wrote:

The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free. And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back into the original.

indeed, especially a service like hosting that has significant ongoing
hard costs involved... a colocated server requires power, air
conditioning, network traffic and transit fees, management, physical
security, and the cost of the hardware itself, which has typically a 3-5
year lifespan (in 3 years, newer hardware can do so much more work its
often not cost effective to keep the old hardware online).

--
john r pierce N 37, W 122
santa cruz ca mid-left coast

On 7/08/2011 1:08 AM, Scott Ribe wrote:

After open source for the software, we will wait for open resource for the hardware (this is just a first example http://www.arduino.cc/, even if of different nature).

While the plans may be free, the actual hardware sure as hell won't be.

A bit OT, but....

Arduino is not so much a "will" as an "is". It's in wide-spread use and
has even been adopted for the base of the new Android peripheral
development system - the Android Open Accessory Development Kit.

http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/usb/adk.html

I struggle to see any connection between Arduino and PostgreSQL, though.
They're very different kinds of free/open source, as software "is" its
specification and can be distributed at no cost, but you can't just
download a hardware device and use it.

--
Craig Ringer

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 1:40 AM, David Johnston <polobo@yahoo.com> wrote:

On Aug 6, 2011, at 18:03, Stuart McGraw <smcg2297@frii.com> wrote:

My point, while coming across a little harsh apparently, is that emphasis
on requiring a free service projects a certain personality.

If a good service is free, like PostgreSQL is, the emphasis of using it is
justified if you do good things by it. The same is valide for free hardware,
but as 'we' know for the hardware is not exactly the same. However, because
free file hosting exists and because my funded project ended and I cannot
continue to economically support it with other incomes, I tried to ask if
the use of a free hosting platform where to install free software (java,
PostgreSQL, etc.) could exist.

Even just adding "or low cost" would have helped.

Unfortunately, you cannot ask questions on my behalf. I usually ask
questions on the basis of my requirements and knowledge. Then, if you want,
you can answer with possible comments or not or star a discussion. And
finally, I would thank you in any case for your attention and your time.

That said, it wasn't the original request the got me to respond but the
part about needing to eat.

I have never talked about the needing to eat!! I just wrote that my project
ended, but fortunately the life of a researcher/engineer is not made just of
funded projects. In any case thanks for your concern. :-)

I know "we" started it with the comment about why there are no free hosting
providers and I am just as guilty for adding to it.

In all, though, I didn't mean to say anyone IS a free-loader only that you
can be perceived as one and such perceptions can suppress otherwise useful
responses. In the end everyone free-loads and is taken advantage of at the
same time in many different areas; and any judgements should be made only
when many facts are known (if ever).

Sorry if I criticized the "free" model as somebody has defined it and as
probably it is. I explained my ideas in my previous email and I don't want
to bore you repeating again my point of view.

I apologize for my tone earlier but to be honest this is probably one of
the calmest flame-wars I've ever seen :)

I apologize too. :-) Peace done!

The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company
willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free.
And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like
PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it
compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back
into the original.

But, there are a number of companies that do what you need for a price. If
you feel what you are doing is important it should at least be worth your
time to talk to these companies and see what arrangements can be made
instead of dismissing them outright because they charge for their services.
You may find someone inclined to take on pro-bono work for a good cause;
especially if your needs are modest. In short, ask for everything and then
perform the filtering yourself instead of asking others to filter for you -
only you know what your actual situation is which makes anyone else's
filtering only an uninformed guess.

As answered before, you cannot ask questions on my behalf. :-) I already
filtered any "no free" solutions for valid reasons. What you suggest would
have caused just a great loss of time for me and for the hosting providers.

John, Craig,

how do you explain the services of file hosting? By those services millions
of persons free-load pictures, videos, text, GBs of data, etc.. I think that
what I asked is quite similar, that is the use of a piece of remote hardware
where to have free software installed. The difference in my opinion is in
the fact that I implicitly asked also for the use of a free operating
system, but not in the hardware or in its maintenance.

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 3:56 AM, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:
On 08/06/11 4:40 PM, David Johnston wrote:

The bottom line is I would not expect to find any individual or company
willing or able to offer such a service, to the general public, for free.
And it is a service you are requesting as opposed to a product like
PostgreSQL. A product is more likely to be improved by the people using it
compared to a service, and those improvements are likely to make it back
into the original.

indeed, especially a service like hosting that has significant ongoing hard
costs involved... a colocated server requires power, air conditioning,
network traffic and transit fees, management, physical security, and the
cost of the hardware itself, which has typically a 3-5 year lifespan (in 3
years, newer hardware can do so much more work its often not cost effective
to keep the old hardware online).

On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Craig Ringer <ringerc@ringerc.id.au> wrote: