unsubscribe

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce

tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Vick Khera (#6)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Vick Khera <vivek@khera.org> writes:

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.

Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
There's a summary of the changes at

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

regards, tom lane

Vick Khera

vivek@khera.org

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#8)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:

Vick Khera <vivek@khera.org> writes:

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being

properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.

Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
There's a summary of the changes at

Thanks, Tom. I see it now :)

I wonder why there was such a rush of unsubscribe requests following the
change... maybe people were filtering it instead of unsubscribing before.

#10

jd@commandprompt.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#8)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:11 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Vick Khera <vivek@khera.org> writes:

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.

Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
There's a summary of the changes at

I certainly didn't. It is rather difficult for people with day lives
that do not revolve around postgresql.org to keep up with the large
amount of traffic that comes from the lists.

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration not the
user wondering why they are currently getting spammed because their
filters no longer work.

Thanks,

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
***** Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *****

#11

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#10)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
wrote:

On 11/20/2017 11:11 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

Vick Khera <vivek@khera.org> writes:

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being
properly auto-files by the filter I have set up.

Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages?
There's a summary of the changes at

I certainly didn't. It is rather difficult for people with day lives that
do not revolve around postgresql.org to keep up with the large amount of
traffic that comes from the lists.

Which is why the extra email was sent *after* the migration, to make sure
it would be the first one *not* hitting peoples filters, and thus have a
chance of being read even if the others weren't.

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration not the
user wondering why they are currently getting spammed because their filters
no longer work.

So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we have
more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those changes
without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>

#12

Alban Hertroys

haramrae@gmail.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#8)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:11, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

I imagine that some people might think along the lines of: "Annoy them enough, and someone will do something about it".

And they could be right too, as no doubt some subscribers might figure that sending an auto-reply to any unsubscribe message to the list to the person in question - perhaps with an explanation of how to unsubscribe properly - would make that person use the correct method for unsubscribing rather sooner than later.

Please, as tempting as that sounds, be gentle to the list server and do not do that.

Alban Hertroys
--
If you can't see the forest for the trees,
cut the trees and you'll find there is no forest.

#13

Mengxuan Xia

mengxuan.xia@outlook.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Alban Hertroys (#12)

RE: To all who wish to unsubscribe

A common feature in modern Email client is to allow users to unsubscribe in one line. This works by sending a email titled "unsubscribe" to the listserv, which most listserv these days are able to understand and unsubscribe the user.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alban Hertroys [mailto:haramrae@gmail.com]
Sent: November 20, 2017 2:41 PM
To: Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
Cc: Vick Khera <vivek@khera.org>; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Subject: Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:11, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything except
to annoy the rest of the list membership.

I imagine that some people might think along the lines of: "Annoy them enough, and someone will do something about it".

Please, as tempting as that sounds, be gentle to the list server and do not do that.

Alban Hertroys
--
If you can't see the forest for the trees, cut the trees and you'll find there is no forest.

#14

jd@commandprompt.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#11)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce
<https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce>

Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending
"unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration
not the user wondering why they are currently getting spammed
because their filters no longer work.

So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we
have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those
changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..

I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that big
of a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer
that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one
thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that
says:

The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this
page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.

And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

Thanks,

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
***** Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *****

#15

jd@commandprompt.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#14)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that
we have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make
those changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to
hear it..

I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that
big of a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a
footer that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe.
Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time
period) that says:

The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see
this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.

And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

I would also note that removing the ability to unsubscribe in an
standard fashion is rather user unfriendly. Although many spammers
require that you go to a website, we rarely (I have never seen it) have
to log in to unsubscribe from a list. If you add that most people and
especially people that are on this list are going to be used to using
email to subscribe/unsubscribe...

Thanks,

Thanks,

JD

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
***** Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *****

#16

tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#14)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> writes:

On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:
One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer
that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one
thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that
says:
The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this
page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.
And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified
as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
can't mangle the Subject: line.

In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
buttons. Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
mail agents that don't handle that.

regards, tom lane

#17

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#15)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
wrote:

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we

have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those
changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it..

I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that big of
a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer that
tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one thing that
could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that says:

The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this
page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.

And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

I would also note that removing the ability to unsubscribe in an standard
fashion is rather user unfriendly. Although many spammers require that you
go to a website, we rarely (I have never seen it) have to log in to
unsubscribe from a list. If you add that most people and especially people
that are on this list are going to be used to using email to
subscribe/unsubscribe...

Right. This is why you can send an emtil to say
pgsql-general-unsubscribe@lists.postgresql.org to unsubscribe. You can also
click the unsubscribe link that's in the list headers, which also does not
require you to log in - you just have to click the confirmation button.

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>

#18

Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter

jd@commandprompt.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#16)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote:

Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug.
In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified
as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we
can't mangle the Subject: line.

Ugh, o.k.

In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in
mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe
buttons. Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use
mail agents that don't handle that.

I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are using. I
can't find where these would work to unsubscribe.

Well this is a pain for everyone it seems.

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc

PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://pgconf.org
***** Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *****

#19

richter@simkorp.com.br

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#14)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Em 20/11/2017 17:45, Joshua D. Drake escreveu:

On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:

        https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce
<https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce>

        Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.
Sending
        "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything
        except to annoy the rest of the list membership.

    This is true but I would suggest it was a flaw in the migration
    not the user wondering why they are currently getting spammed
    because their filters no longer work.

So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that
we have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make
those changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to
hear it..

I was thinking about that. I was actually surprised at how many people
this affected. It only affected one filter for me so it wasn't that
big of a deal. One thing I would note is that there is no longer a
footer that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe.
Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time
period) that says:

The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see
this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.

And then after the temporary time period that becomes a footer?

Thanks,

JD

I've been affected also, in a minor way, because I used to receive
digest 2 or 3 times a day, and now I'm receiving every e-mail again.
This is, at least, annoying.
would be better to keep the user options when migrating from one
software to another.

Regards,

Edson

#20

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#14)

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time
period) that says:

The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see
this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters.

vast majority of users never see the full headers, they just see From,
To, Date, Subject, and everything else is hidden. on a phone or a web
mail system like gmail, its very hard to see that stuff.

--
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

#21

Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter

tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#17)

#22

richter@simkorp.com.br

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#18)

#23

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Mengxuan Xia (#13)

#24

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#18)

#25

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#18)

#26

linuxhiker@gmail.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#25)

#27

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#21)

#28

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#25)

#29

Alvaro Herrera

alvherre@2ndquadrant.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter (#19)

#30

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#28)

#31

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#28)

#32

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#31)

#33

Daniel Verite

daniel@manitou-mail.org

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#11)

#34

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#16)

#35

Piotr Stefaniak

postgres@piotr-stefaniak.me

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#16)

#36

Steve Atkins

steve@blighty.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Piotr Stefaniak (#35)

#37

Jan Claeys

lists@janc.be

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter (#22)

#38

Gavin Flower

GavinFlower@archidevsys.co.nz

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#25)

#39

Carl Karsten

carl@personnelware.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#8)

#40

ajs@crankycanuck.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#11)

#41

ajs@crankycanuck.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Steve Atkins (#36)

#42

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Andrew Sullivan (#40)

#43

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Andrew Sullivan (#41)

#44

Steve Atkins

steve@blighty.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Andrew Sullivan (#41)

#45

Alan Hodgson

ahodgson@lists.simkin.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#43)

#46

ajs@crankycanuck.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Stephen Frost (#42)

#47

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Alan Hodgson (#45)

#48

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Andrew Sullivan (#46)

#49

David G. Johnston

david.g.johnston@gmail.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Andrew Sullivan (#46)

#50

Alvaro Herrera

alvherre@2ndquadrant.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Steve Atkins (#44)

#51

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: David G. Johnston (#49)

#52

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: David G. Johnston (#49)

#53

tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Magnus Hagander (#52)

#54

jd@commandprompt.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#53)

#55

pierce@hogranch.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#54)

#56

tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#55)

#57

jd@commandprompt.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#56)

#58

magnus@hagander.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#56)

#59

ajs@crankycanuck.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Alan Hodgson (#45)

#60

Jerry Regan

jerry.regan@concertoglobalresources.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#56)

#61

ajs@crankycanuck.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#48)

#62

ajs@crankycanuck.ca

over 8 years ago

In reply to: John R Pierce (#55)

#63

Craig Ringer

craig@2ndquadrant.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Tom Lane (#53)

#64

Igor Korot

ikorot01@gmail.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Jerry Regan (#60)

#65

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Igor Korot (#64)

#66

Niels Kristian Schjødt

nielskristian@autouncle.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Stephen Frost (#65)

#67

Mike Sofen

msofen@runbox.com

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Niels Kristian Schjødt (#66)

#68

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Mike Sofen (#67)

#69

Vick Khera

vivek@khera.org

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Stephen Frost (#68)

#70

Geoff Winkless

pgsqladmin@geoff.dj

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Vick Khera (#69)

#71

sfrost@snowman.net

over 8 years ago

In reply to: Vick Khera (#69)

#72