Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

Robert Ford schrieb am 02.03.2020 um 15:42:

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not
expecting *very *specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say
1 TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance
between Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some
issues with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real
performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find
very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world
experience on this topic?

I think the major Linux file systems do still outperform NTFS.

But you might want to consider something else:

Most of the interesting extensions and tools only work on Linux - that includes administration tools like barman, pg_back or repmgr.

So preferring one over the other, is not only about performance, but might also be about administration.

Well,

on Windows you should try ReiserFS over a nvme optimized WHQL certified hardware.
Da: Robert Ford <robfordww@gmail.com>
Inviato: lunedì 2 marzo 2020 15:42
A: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
Oggetto: Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not expecting very specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say 1 TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance between Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some issues with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world experience on this topic?

best regards
RF

Hi Robert

I've used Postgresql on windows for years. Yes there are performance
differences between windows and linux and the gap has gotten bigger with
JIT

Common performance hits
Shared Buffers
JIT not supported
Windows can be aggressive flushing its disk cache,
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/administration/performance-tuning/subsystem/cache-memory-management/

Running Postgresql using HyperV had big performance hit in my setup it was
30% hit between the VM vs the Hosted OS.

Switch to Linux to get JIT and saw significant improvement on specific
queries, for general use it was marginal improvement once the hardware
difference was factored out

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 9:42 AM Robert Ford <robfordww@gmail.com> wrote:

But why even bother paying for MS licenses? Postgres runs like a train
on Linux. Save your money.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:01, Roberto Della Pasqua wrote:

Well,

on Windows you should try ReiserFS over a nvme optimized WHQL
certified hardware.

*Da:* Robert Ford <robfordww@gmail.com>
*Inviato:* lunedì 2 marzo 2020 15:42
*A:* pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
*Oggetto:* Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not expecting
*very *specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say 1
TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance between
Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some issues
with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real
performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find
very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world
experience on this topic?

best regards

RF

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web: https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it to admin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
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Your comment assumes that OP does *not* have have a site license, and *does*
have Linux expertise.  Neither assumption is always valid.

(And, of course, the Windows server might already exist.)

On 3/2/20 9:06 AM, Tim Clarke wrote:

But why even bother paying for MS licenses? Postgres runs like a train
on Linux. Save your money.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:01, Roberto Della Pasqua wrote:

Well,

on Windows you should try ReiserFS over a nvme optimized WHQL
certified hardware.

*Da:* Robert Ford <robfordww@gmail.com>
*Inviato:* lunedì 2 marzo 2020 15:42
*A:* pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
*Oggetto:* Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not expecting
*very *specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say 1
TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance between
Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some issues
with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real
performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find
very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world
experience on this topic?

best regards

RF

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web: https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it to admin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Here https://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

Not at all, we found that Linux "expertise" is 1/10 the cost of Windows
expertise. Time to plan for getting rid of the site license.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:32, Ron wrote:

Your comment assumes that OP does *not* have have a site license, and
*does* have Linux expertise. Neither assumption is always valid.

(And, of course, the Windows server might already exist.)

On 3/2/20 9:06 AM, Tim Clarke wrote:

But why even bother paying for MS licenses? Postgres runs like a train
on Linux. Save your money.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:01, Roberto Della Pasqua wrote:

Well,

on Windows you should try ReiserFS over a nvme optimized WHQL
certified hardware.

*Da:* Robert Ford<robfordww@gmail.com>
*Inviato:* lunedì 2 marzo 2020 15:42
*A:*pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
*Oggetto:* Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not expecting
*very *specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say 1
TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance between
Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some issues
with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real
performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find
very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world
experience on this topic?

best regards

RF

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web:https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it toadmin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Herehttps://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web: https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it to admin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Here https://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

LOL.  Double LOL, even.  We -- and a huge number of other organizations --
are completely wrapped in the Windows environment, from Outlook and Excel to
SharePoint to the myriad of 3rd party programs that *only* work on Windows.

On 3/2/20 9:37 AM, Tim Clarke wrote:

Not at all, we found that Linux "expertise" is 1/10 the cost of Windows
expertise. Time to plan for getting rid of the site license.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:32, Ron wrote:

Your comment assumes that OP does *not* have have a site license, and
*does* have Linux expertise. Neither assumption is always valid.

(And, of course, the Windows server might already exist.)

On 3/2/20 9:06 AM, Tim Clarke wrote:

But why even bother paying for MS licenses? Postgres runs like a train
on Linux. Save your money.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:01, Roberto Della Pasqua wrote:

Well,

on Windows you should try ReiserFS over a nvme optimized WHQL
certified hardware.

*Da:* Robert Ford<robfordww@gmail.com>
*Inviato:* lunedì 2 marzo 2020 15:42
*A:*pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
*Oggetto:* Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not expecting
*very *specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say 1
TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance between
Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some issues
with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real
performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find
very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world
experience on this topic?

best regards

RF

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web:https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it toadmin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Herehttps://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web: https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it to admin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Here https://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

There's always a good time to re-examine that :D

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:52, Ron wrote:

LOL. Double LOL, even. We -- and a huge number of other
organizations -- are completely wrapped in the Windows environment,
from Outlook and Excel to SharePoint to the myriad of 3rd party
programs that *only* work on Windows.

On 3/2/20 9:37 AM, Tim Clarke wrote:

Not at all, we found that Linux "expertise" is 1/10 the cost of Windows
expertise. Time to plan for getting rid of the site license.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:32, Ron wrote:

Your comment assumes that OP does *not* have have a site license, and
*does* have Linux expertise. Neither assumption is always valid.

(And, of course, the Windows server might already exist.)

On 3/2/20 9:06 AM, Tim Clarke wrote:

But why even bother paying for MS licenses? Postgres runs like a train
on Linux. Save your money.

Tim Clarke
IT Director
Direct: +44 (0)1376 504510 | Mobile: +44 (0)7887 563420

On 02/03/2020 15:01, Roberto Della Pasqua wrote:

Well,

on Windows you should try ReiserFS over a nvme optimized WHQL
certified hardware.

*Da:* Robert Ford<robfordww@gmail.com>
*Inviato:* lunedì 2 marzo 2020 15:42
*A:*pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org
*Oggetto:* Postgresql 12.x on Windows (vs Linux)

I am aware that this might be a broad question, but I am not expecting
*very *specific answers either:

When it come to running a modern PostgreSQL server, which serves say 1
TB of data, are there substantial differences in performance between
Windows Server 2019 and Linux today? I know there are some issues
with shared_buffers and windows, but does it manifest in real
performance issues?

I have searched the web for this question, but is surprised to find
very few concrete benchmarks on this. Anyone with real world
experience on this topic?

best regards

RF

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web:https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report ittoadmin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Herehttps://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web:https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it toadmin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Herehttps://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

--
Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.

Telephone: Witham: +44(0)1376 503500 | London: +44 (0)20 3009 0853 | Frankfurt: +49 (0)69 7191 6000 | Hong Kong: +852 5803 1687 | Toronto: +1 647 503 2848
Web: https://www.manifest.co.uk/

Minerva Analytics Ltd - A Solactive Company
9 Freebournes Court | Newland Street | Witham | Essex | CM8 2BL | United Kingdom

________________________________

Copyright: This e-mail may contain confidential or legally privileged information. If you are not the named addressee you must not use or disclose such information, instead please report it to admin@minerva.info<mailto:admin@minerva.info>
Legal: Minerva Analytics is the trading name of: Minerva Analytics Ltd: Registered in England Number 11260966 & The Manifest Voting Agency Ltd: Registered in England Number 2920820 Registered Office at above address. Please Click Here https://www.manifest.co.uk/legal/ for further information.

We're one of those "stuck" in windows, as are most of my clients;
Application licenses, Windows platform licenses, Remote desktop
licenses, Terminal Server licenses...on and on.

A five year examination of licenses and application costs are staggering.

Our wish is to be free of those costs, and have a significant edge
on our competition....or at least use the hundreds of thousands of
dollars for other uses.

Best to be knowlegable of both to see how clearly your being ripped off.

But I do understand the walls you'll encounter trying to change the IT
infrastructure.

People get a new phone, and don't make a peep about all the learning
they do; but dare you take away they're Excel spreadsheet..murderer..

Just saying,