Indication of db-shared tables

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Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?

I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented
well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which
tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
End Point Corporation http://www.endpoint.com/
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201106212323
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
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Excerpts from Greg Sabino Mullane's message of mié jun 22 03:24:34 UTC 2011:

Hash: RIPEMD160

Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?

I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented
well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which
tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.

Yeah. The user can't create new ones either, so why would it matter?

--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Greg Sabino Mullane's message of mi�� jun 22 03:24:34 UTC 2011:

Hash: RIPEMD160

Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database? I
don't see any indication from psql \dS. Are our docs clear enough?

I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented
well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which
tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.

Yeah. The user can't create new ones either, so why would it matter?

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +

Greetings,

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

+1

I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

Regards,
J

Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mié jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:

Greetings,

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

+1

I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
small a use case.

--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi�� jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:

Greetings,

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

+1

I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
small a use case.

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +

Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:

Greetings,

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

+1

I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
small a use case.

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?

--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi�� jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:

Greetings,

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace. The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

+1

I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

So what UI would you guys propose? I don't think widening the output of
frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
small a use case.

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?

I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +

Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 15:24:40 -0400 2011:

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?

I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.

Well, that's what I was proposing above, sans the (unnecessary?) parens.

--
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

On 06/22/2011 03:24 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?

I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.

I'm a bit unclear who this is going to help much. If you know what a
shared table is you're pretty likely to know which tables are shared -
there aren't that many of them after all. If you don't, this description
is at least as likely to confuse you as help you in any way. I don't
have strong feelings, just a bit of a suspicion that this isn't going to
do much good.

cheers

andrew

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi�� jun 22 15:24:40 -0400 2011:

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?

I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.

Well, that's what I was proposing above, sans the (unnecessary?) parens.

OK.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ It's impossible for everything to be true. +