Inconsistent Japanese name order in v13 contributors list
Hi,
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.
Best regards,
Etsuro Fujita
Attachments:
Standardize-Japanese-names.patchapplication/octet-stream; name=Standardize-Japanese-names.patchDownload
diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/release-13.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/release-13.sgml
index 68f9a0a9f1..bd36eb1bda 100644
--- a/doc/src/sgml/release-13.sgml
+++ b/doc/src/sgml/release-13.sgml
@@ -3145,7 +3145,6 @@ Author: Peter Geoghegan <pg@bowt.ie>
<member>Arseny Sher</member>
<member>Arthur Nascimento</member>
<member>Arthur Zakirov</member>
- <member>Asaba Takanori</member>
<member>Ashutosh Bapat</member>
<member>Ashutosh Sharma</member>
<member>Ashwin Agrawal</member>
@@ -3237,6 +3236,7 @@ Author: Peter Geoghegan <pg@bowt.ie>
<member>Hamid Akhtar</member>
<member>Hans Buschmann</member>
<member>Haribabu Kommi</member>
+ <member>Haruka Takatsuka</member>
<member>Heath Lord</member>
<member>Heikki Linnakangas</member>
<member>Hironobu Suzuki</member>
@@ -3426,8 +3426,8 @@ Author: Peter Geoghegan <pg@bowt.ie>
<member>Steven Winfield</member>
<member>Surafel Temesgen</member>
<member>Suraj Kharage</member>
+ <member>Takanori Asaba</member>
<member>Takao Fujii</member>
- <member>Takatsuka Haruka</member>
<member>Takayuki Tsunakawa</member>
<member>Takuma Hoshiai</member>
<member>Tatsuhito Kasahara</member>
On 2020/09/09 14:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Hi,
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.
Using given-name-first order is our consensus? I was thinking we have not
reached that yet and our "vague" consensus was to use the name that each
contributor prefers, for example the name that used in the email signature, etc.
BTW, if possible I'd like to use family-name-first, i.e., "Fujii Masao".
Regards,
--
Fujii Masao
Advanced Computing Technology Center
Research and Development Headquarters
NTT DATA CORPORATION
From: Fujii Masao <masao.fujii@oss.nttdata.com>
On 2020/09/09 14:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Using given-name-first order is our consensus? I was thinking we have not
reached that yet and our "vague" consensus was to use the name that each
contributor prefers, for example the name that used in the email signature, etc.BTW, if possible I'd like to use family-name-first, i.e., "Fujii Masao".
According to the following article, first name -> given name order is usually used even for Western personal names? I don't mind either way. What I hope is to not burdon people who author the release note page.
Personal name - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_name
"Western name order"
"Within alphabetic lists and catalogs, however, the family name is generally put first, with the given name(s) following, separated from it by a comma (e.g. Smith, John), representing the "lexical name order". This convention is followed by most Western libraries, as well as on many administrative forms."
Regards
Takayuki Tsunakawa
On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 2:58 PM tsunakawa.takay@fujitsu.com
<tsunakawa.takay@fujitsu.com> wrote:
From: Fujii Masao <masao.fujii@oss.nttdata.com>
On 2020/09/09 14:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Using given-name-first order is our consensus?
Not sure. I did so just as before.
BTW, if possible I'd like to use family-name-first, i.e., "Fujii Masao".
"Within alphabetic lists and catalogs, however, the family name is generally put first, with the given name(s) following, separated from it by a comma (e.g. Smith, John), representing the "lexical name order". This convention is followed by most Western libraries, as well as on many administrative forms."
I think it would be a good idea to use this convention because that
makes clear which one is his/her given name.
Best regards,
Etsuro Fujita
On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 10:15 PM Etsuro Fujita <etsuro.fujita@gmail.com> wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.
I recently read that the Japanese government issued a decree about this:
https://www.economist.com/asia/2020/01/02/why-japanese-names-have-flipped
In my opinion the Japanese practice of family name first is not
confusing in any way. However, it can be confusing when it is applied
inconsistently.
--
Peter Geoghegan
On 2020-09-09 07:40, Fujii Masao wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Using given-name-first order is our consensus? I was thinking we have not
reached that yet and our "vague" consensus was to use the name that each
contributor prefers, for example the name that used in the email signature, etc.BTW, if possible I'd like to use family-name-first, i.e., "Fujii Masao".
See commit 53c89aed7b38ab412fddc1d6118822ce5d962acd for when this was
changed.
At least it's the current practice. It can be debated whether it's a
good practice.
--
Peter Eisentraut http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
On 2020-09-09 07:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.
Given existing practice, this patch looks okay.
--
Peter Eisentraut http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
On 2020/09/09 21:15, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
On 2020-09-09 07:40, Fujii Masao wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Using given-name-first order is our consensus? I was thinking we have not
reached that yet and our "vague" consensus was to use the name that each
contributor prefers, for example the name that used in the email signature, etc.BTW, if possible I'd like to use family-name-first, i.e., "Fujii Masao".
See commit 53c89aed7b38ab412fddc1d6118822ce5d962acd for when this was changed.
At least it's the current practice. It can be debated whether it's a good practice.
Thanks for letting me know that! Ok, using family-name-first rule only
for me would make the maintain of contributors list harder, so I'm ok
to follow the given-name-first rule for the list.
Regards,
--
Fujii Masao
Advanced Computing Technology Center
Research and Development Headquarters
NTT DATA CORPORATION
On 2020-Sep-09, Fujii Masao wrote:
On 2020/09/09 14:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Hi,
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Using given-name-first order is our consensus? I was thinking we have not
reached that yet and our "vague" consensus was to use the name that each
contributor prefers, for example the name that used in the email signature, etc.
That's indeed our historical practice. See previous thread where we've
discussed this at length,
/messages/by-id/20150613231826.GY133018@postgresql.org
The Economist piece Peter G cited is also relevant.
The commit Peter E cited seems more anecdotical than precedence-setting,
since there was no actual discussion, and whatever little there was was
confined to pgsql-committers.
An easy way to avoid any confusion is to uppercase the family name in
the cases where it goes first.
--
�lvaro Herrera https://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@2ndquadrant.com> writes:
On 2020-Sep-09, Fujii Masao wrote:
Using given-name-first order is our consensus?
That's indeed our historical practice. See previous thread where we've
discussed this at length,
/messages/by-id/20150613231826.GY133018@postgresql.org
The Economist piece Peter G cited is also relevant.
Right. I think the decree the Economist cites might be sufficient
reason to reopen the discussion, though I surely don't want it to
turn into another long thread.
regards, tom lane
On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 9:16 PM Peter Eisentraut
<peter.eisentraut@2ndquadrant.com> wrote:
On 2020-09-09 07:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Given existing practice, this patch looks okay.
I've applied the patch. Thanks for the review!
Best regards,
Etsuro Fujita
On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 03:27:42PM -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
On 2020-Sep-09, Fujii Masao wrote:
On 2020/09/09 14:15, Etsuro Fujita wrote:
Hi,
Attached is a patch to standardize Japanese names as given-name-first
in the v13 contributors list as before.Using given-name-first order is our consensus? I was thinking we have not
reached that yet and our "vague" consensus was to use the name that each
contributor prefers, for example the name that used in the email signature, etc.That's indeed our historical practice. See previous thread where we've
discussed this at length,
/messages/by-id/20150613231826.GY133018@postgresql.orgThe Economist piece Peter G cited is also relevant.
The commit Peter E cited seems more anecdotical than precedence-setting,
since there was no actual discussion, and whatever little there was was
confined to pgsql-committers.
This thread from 2015 is the most comprehensive discussion I remember of
Japanese name ordering, including a suggestion to use small caps:
/messages/by-id/20150613231826.GY133018@postgresql.org
I have been following this guidance ever since.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> https://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB https://enterprisedb.com
The usefulness of a cup is in its emptiness, Bruce Lee
On 2020-Sep-18, Bruce Momjian wrote:
This thread from 2015 is the most comprehensive discussion I remember of
Japanese name ordering, including a suggestion to use small caps:/messages/by-id/20150613231826.GY133018@postgresql.org
I have been following this guidance ever since.
Right.
About smallcaps, we didn't do it then because there was no way known to
us to use them in our then-current toolchain. But we've changed now to
XML and apparently it is possible to use them -- we could try something
like <emphasis role="caps_lastname"> and define a CSS rule like
.caps_lastname {font-variant: small-caps;}
(Apparently you also need to set 'emphasis.propagates.style' to 1 in the
stylesheet). This does it for HTML. You also need some FO trick to
cover the PDF (probably something like what a042750646db did to change
catalog_table_entry formatting.)
--
�lvaro Herrera https://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 10:31:31AM -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
On 2020-Sep-18, Bruce Momjian wrote:
This thread from 2015 is the most comprehensive discussion I remember of
Japanese name ordering, including a suggestion to use small caps:/messages/by-id/20150613231826.GY133018@postgresql.org
I have been following this guidance ever since.
Right.
About smallcaps, we didn't do it then because there was no way known to
us to use them in our then-current toolchain. But we've changed now to
XML and apparently it is possible to use them -- we could try something
like <emphasis role="caps_lastname"> and define a CSS rule like.caps_lastname {font-variant: small-caps;}
Yes, that's what I use for CSS.
(Apparently you also need to set 'emphasis.propagates.style' to 1 in the
stylesheet). This does it for HTML. You also need some FO trick to
cover the PDF (probably something like what a042750646db did to change
catalog_table_entry formatting.)
Yeah, we have PDF output to worry about too. It is easy in LaTeX.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> https://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB https://enterprisedb.com
The usefulness of a cup is in its emptiness, Bruce Lee