Link to bug webpage

Thus spake Bruce Momjian

If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving
the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:

http://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html

Jeez, Louise. Talk about a blaming the tools because you don't know
anything about database design. I mean, his biggest complaint is that
PostgreSQL makes it hard (not impossible as he implies) to change the
schema. Perhaps that is because it was written by GOOD database designers
who don't have to change their schema every other week and so that issue
hasn't been a squeaky wheel.

I can't believe that anyone important is listening to this guy.

-- 
D'Arcy J.M. Cain <darcy@{druid|vex}.net>   |  Democracy is three wolves
http://www.druid.net/darcy/                |  and a sheep voting on
+1 416 425 1212     (DoD#0082)    (eNTP)   |  what's for dinner.

We better remove that web page soon:

http://www.ca.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php?2

Do we have any pages to alter the status of bugs, or assign them? There are
a number of bugs in the list that I know are fixed.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner | __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |----/ - \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /(@) ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _________ \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au | / \|
| --________--
PGP key available upon request, | /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving
the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:

http://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html

Not only does it show the problems he had with PostgreSQL, he uses our
bug list as an example of how PostgreSQL isn't advancing or interested
in fixing bug.

We better remove that web page soon:

http://www.ca.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php?2

I removed the link to the page a few days ago. I guess I should disable
it as well. Woulda been a whole lot easier if the database was just
updated periodically.

Vince.
--
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving
the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:

http://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html

Not only does it show the problems he had with PostgreSQL, he uses our
bug list as an example of how PostgreSQL isn't advancing or interested
in fixing bug.

We better remove that web page soon:

http://www.ca.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php?2

Ok the functionality as well as the menu item are gone. You do realize
it's going to give the impression that we're trying to hide something,
don't you?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
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On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Philip Warner wrote:

We better remove that web page soon:

http://www.ca.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php?2

Do we have any pages to alter the status of bugs, or assign them? There are
a number of bugs in the list that I know are fixed.

Yes but noone was interested in it. It's still there but you're really
the first to show interest in about a year.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
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56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
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==========================================================================

At 08:32 21/08/01 -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

Yes but noone was interested in it. It's still there but you're really
the first to show interest in about a year.

That's good (and depressing); where are they?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner | __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |----/ - \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /(@) ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _________ \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au | / \|
| --________--
PGP key available upon request, | /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving
the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:

http://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html

Not only does it show the problems he had with PostgreSQL, he uses our
bug list as an example of how PostgreSQL isn't advancing or interested
in fixing bug.

We better remove that web page soon:

http://www.ca.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php?2

Ok the functionality as well as the menu item are gone. You do realize
it's going to give the impression that we're trying to hide something,
don't you?

Uh, what choices do we have? Do we want to update that database, seeing
as only a small percentage of bug reports come in through that
interface?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

At 08:22 21/08/01 -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote:

I removed the link to the page a few days ago. I guess I should disable
it as well. Woulda been a whole lot easier if the database was just
updated periodically.

I don't think this is a good solution. We really do need a list of bugs. We
probably need to list status and the releases they apply to.

I don't think anybody but the most naieve (or biased) users expect software
to be bug free, and the number of bugs grows with the complexity of the
components. The fact we have a lot of bugs is to be expected. The fact that
we don't mark them as fixed is just sloppy.

Please reinstate the page, and allow some facility to edit them. I will try
to work through them *slowly* to verify they are reproducible/not
reproducible in 7.1.3 and in the current CVS, then mark them as fixed in
the appropriate release. Hopefully other people will do the same with bugs
they know about.

Does this seem reasonable?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner | __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |----/ - \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /(@) ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _________ \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au | / \|
| --________--
PGP key available upon request, | /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

If anyone was concerned about our bug database being visible and giving
the impression we don't fix any bugs, see this URL:

http://www.isthisthingon.org/nisca/postgres.html

Not only does it show the problems he had with PostgreSQL, he uses our
bug list as an example of how PostgreSQL isn't advancing or interested
in fixing bug.

We better remove that web page soon:

http://www.ca.postgresql.org/bugs/bugs.php?2

Ok the functionality as well as the menu item are gone. You do realize
it's going to give the impression that we're trying to hide something,
don't you?

Uh, what choices do we have? Do we want to update that database, seeing
as only a small percentage of bug reports come in through that
interface?

There are over 400 in the database. If that's a small percentage then
so be it, but it's still over 400 bugs that appear to have been ignored.
Having a place to look up possible problems and seeing if there was a
solution seems to be a plus to me, but if you don't want it it doesn't
bother me either way. The lookups are currently disabled, ball's in
your court.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

We could install the Postgres version of Bugzilla.
Yes, there's a version that runs on Postgres rather than MySQL.
That way we don't have to maintain the bug system.

Ok the functionality as well as the menu item are gone. You do realize
it's going to give the impression that we're trying to hide something,
don't you?

Vince.

Cheers,

Colin

Ok the functionality as well as the menu item are gone. You do realize
it's going to give the impression that we're trying to hide something,
don't you?

Uh, what choices do we have? Do we want to update that database, seeing
as only a small percentage of bug reports come in through that
interface?

There are over 400 in the database. If that's a small percentage then
so be it, but it's still over 400 bugs that appear to have been ignored.
Having a place to look up possible problems and seeing if there was a
solution seems to be a plus to me, but if you don't want it it doesn't
bother me either way. The lookups are currently disabled, ball's in
your court.

It's up to the group to decide. If we have a database of bugs, I think
it has to be complete. I think a partial list is worse than no list at
all.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Colin 't Hart wrote:

We could install the Postgres version of Bugzilla.
Yes, there's a version that runs on Postgres rather than MySQL.
That way we don't have to maintain the bug system.

And how does it know when bugs are fixed?

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

It's up to the group to decide. If we have a database of bugs, I think
it has to be complete. I think a partial list is worse than no list at
all.

I disagree. Unless you are omniscient, we will only ever have a partial list.

Perhaps more importantly, the more common ones will be in the list, because
the more often it's reported, the more likely someone will use the bug
tool. If we develop a culture that says 'if it's on the bug list, it will
get looked at', then more people will report bugs via the correct channels
etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Philip Warner | __---_____
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd. |----/ - \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498) | /(@) ______---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _________ \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___________ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au | / \|
| --________--
PGP key available upon request, | /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371 |/

It's up to the group to decide. If we have a database of bugs, I think
it has to be complete. I think a partial list is worse than no list at
all.

I disagree. Unless you are omniscient, we will only ever have a partial list.

Perhaps more importantly, the more common ones will be in the list, because
the more often it's reported, the more likely someone will use the bug
tool. If we develop a culture that says 'if it's on the bug list, it will
get looked at', then more people will report bugs via the correct channels
etc.

That is the real question. Do we want to rely more heavily on a bug
database rather than the email lists? I haven't heard many say they
want that.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

It's up to the group to decide. If we have a database of bugs, I think
it has to be complete. I think a partial list is worse than no list at
all.

I disagree. Unless you are omniscient, we will only ever have a partial list.

Perhaps more importantly, the more common ones will be in the list, because
the more often it's reported, the more likely someone will use the bug
tool. If we develop a culture that says 'if it's on the bug list, it will
get looked at', then more people will report bugs via the correct channels
etc.

That is the real question. Do we want to rely more heavily on a bug
database rather than the email lists? I haven't heard many say they
want that.

The database keeps track of it. When someone uses the bugtool to
report a bug it's mailed to the bugs list.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

Philip Warner wrote:

I don't think this is a good solution. We really do need a list of bugs.

We

probably need to list status and the releases they apply to.

Bugzilla can do this -- it has the concept of a Milestone and a Version.

I don't think anybody but the most naieve (or biased) users expect

software

to be bug free, and the number of bugs grows with the complexity of the
components. The fact we have a lot of bugs is to be expected. The fact

that

we don't mark them as fixed is just sloppy.

Bugzilla makes it fairly painless to mark a bug as fixed.

Please reinstate the page, and allow some facility to edit them. I will

try

to work through them *slowly* to verify they are reproducible/not
reproducible in 7.1.3 and in the current CVS, then mark them as fixed in
the appropriate release. Hopefully other people will do the same with bugs
they know about.

Does this seem reasonable?

If we install Bugzilla (running on Postgres, not MySQL, obviously) we save
ourselves the hassle of maintaining the bug system, and we can showcase
that Postgres *can* be to back a web-based system :-)

Cheers,

Colin

That is the real question. Do we want to rely more heavily on a bug
database rather than the email lists? I haven't heard many say they
want that.

The database keeps track of it. When someone uses the bugtool to
report a bug it's mailed to the bugs list.

Yes, but we have to add items that don't come in through the database,
and mark them as done/duplicates if we want it to be useful.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

That is the real question. Do we want to rely more heavily on a bug
database rather than the email lists? I haven't heard many say they
want that.

The database keeps track of it. When someone uses the bugtool to
report a bug it's mailed to the bugs list.

Yes, but we have to add items that don't come in through the database,
and mark them as done/duplicates if we want it to be useful.

Not necessarily. If someone discovers one that's not in the database
they'll add it. If it's already fixed it'll get closed out but will
still be in the database. It's not intended to be a todo/isdone list
or a development history reference. We have a TODO list and CVS for
that stuff.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net
56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

Yes, but we have to add items that don't come in through the database,
and mark them as done/duplicates if we want it to be useful.

Not necessarily. If someone discovers one that's not in the database
they'll add it. If it's already fixed it'll get closed out but will
still be in the database. It's not intended to be a todo/isdone list
or a development history reference. We have a TODO list and CVS for
that stuff.

How do you communicate that to people looking at the content? Do you
put in big letters at the top, "This list is not complete." The fact an
items is missing from the list (new bug) is just as important as an item
appearing on the list.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026