Windows CHM format for the documents

ilkka@visiomode.com wrote:

Hello,

As Postgres is now going native to Windows platform, many people will
probably want a CHM format (HTML Help) of the manuals.

I have made one from the User Guide, and I can make those from the other
manuals too if people would like to see more of them. The CHM is at address
http://www.visiomode.com/help/pg/

There is also a web viewing capability at address
http://www.visiomode.com/help/help/starthelp.php?doc=1&grp=5

Further, that document (and others) can be edited also in the web by the
software that I've made the CHM with. You can test the editing at address.
http://www.visiomode.com/help/help/
Username: pg
password: 1a2s3d
- The wysiwyg editor requires IE. Use "plain" editor (set from
File->preferences) if you don't have IE.

If you want to take that software in to use, I can give a license of it to
PostgreSQL community. In any case, I can create CHMs for you if you want.

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

http://momjian.postgresql.org/main/writings/pgsql/win32.html

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us]
Sent: 08 September 2003 04:00
To: ilkka@visiomode.com
Cc: pgsql-docs@postgresql.org; PostgreSQL Win32 port list
Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [DOCS] Windows CHM format
for the documents

ilkka@visiomode.com wrote:

Hello,

As Postgres is now going native to Windows platform, many

people will

probably want a CHM format (HTML Help) of the manuals.

I have made one from the User Guide, and I can make those from the
other manuals too if people would like to see more of them.

The CHM is

at address http://www.visiomode.com/help/pg/

There is also a web viewing capability at address
http://www.visiomode.com/help/help/starthelp.php?doc=1&grp=5

Further, that document (and others) can be edited also in

the web by

the software that I've made the CHM with. You can test the

editing at

address. http://www.visiomode.com/help/help/
Username: pg
password: 1a2s3d
- The wysiwyg editor requires IE. Use "plain" editor (set from
File->preferences) if you don't have IE.

If you want to take that software in to use, I can give a

license of

it to PostgreSQL community. In any case, I can create CHMs

for you if

you want.

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

pgAdmin already has the complete document set in chm format. The
contents files etc can be found at
http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/.

Regards, Dave.

On Monday 08 September 2003 05:00, Bruce Momjian wrote:

ilkka@visiomode.com wrote:

Hello,

As Postgres is now going native to Windows platform, many people will
probably want a CHM format (HTML Help) of the manuals.

Bruce, we have done that before a month for pgAdmin for entire postgresql
documentation. Please contact Andreas - no need to do it again !

Regards !

Darko Prenosil wrote:

On Monday 08 September 2003 05:00, Bruce Momjian wrote:

ilkka@visiomode.com wrote:

Hello,

As Postgres is now going native to Windows platform, many people will
probably want a CHM format (HTML Help) of the manuals.

Bruce, we have done that before a month for pgAdmin for entire postgresql
documentation. Please contact Andreas - no need to do it again !

What we *not* have done so far is extracting keywords from the doc. It's
not easy for us pgadminers keeping up-to-date with the doc, but it's
doable (we need to notice added/deleted pages to update the contents),
but maintaining the keywords is probably beyond our capabilities.

Regards,
Andreas

On Monday 08 September 2003 12:05, Andreas Pflug wrote:

Darko Prenosil wrote:

On Monday 08 September 2003 05:00, Bruce Momjian wrote:

ilkka@visiomode.com wrote:

Hello,

As Postgres is now going native to Windows platform, many people will
probably want a CHM format (HTML Help) of the manuals.

Bruce, we have done that before a month for pgAdmin for entire postgresql
documentation. Please contact Andreas - no need to do it again !

What we *not* have done so far is extracting keywords from the doc. It's
not easy for us pgadminers keeping up-to-date with the doc, but it's
doable (we need to notice added/deleted pages to update the contents),
but maintaining the keywords is probably beyond our capabilities.

Extracting words from docs would be difficult, but if keywords from
"bookindex.html" are god enough - it can be done.

Regards !

Ok,

I made a CHM that contains all those documents (6 of them) .. It's also in
http://www.visiomode.com/help/pg/

I would be so happy if you wanted to take my software for the editing
process .. :) But in any case, if there is use for those CHMs, that would be
great too.

Ilkka

----- Original Message -----
From: "Darko Prenosil" <darko.prenosil@finteh.hr>
To: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>; <ilkka@visiomode.com>
Cc: <pgsql-docs@postgresql.org>; "PostgreSQL Win32 port list"
<pgsql-hackers-win32@postgresql.org>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [DOCS] Windows CHM format for the
documents

ilkka@visiomode.com writes:

I made a CHM that contains all those documents (6 of them) .. It's also in
http://www.visiomode.com/help/pg/

Cool!

I would be so happy if you wanted to take my software for the
editing process .. :) But in any case, if there is use for those
CHMs, that would be great too.

The source format of DocBook SGML is a whole lot more widely usable on
most of the platforms on which PostgreSQL runs, so I would hope that
your software has some sort of "batch mode" that can accept HTML (or
something like HTML) and transform it into .chm files. The preference
would only be likely to swing in your direction if PostgreSQL became
more prevalent on Windows than on Unix.
--
"cbbrowne","@","ntlug.org"
http://cbbrowne.com/info/advocacy.html
"Seriously, I think you really need to find out who took your sense of
humor, beat the crap out of him, and take it back. It's getting old."
-- Michael J Ash <mikeash@csd.uwm.edu>, on comp.lang.objective-c

The source format of DocBook SGML is a whole lot more widely usable on
most of the platforms on which PostgreSQL runs, so I would hope that
your software has some sort of "batch mode" that can accept HTML (or
something like HTML) and transform it into .chm files. The preference
would only be likely to swing in your direction if PostgreSQL became
more prevalent on Windows than on Unix.

Yes, exactly like that, it has the ability to import documents from many
different formats. There is an PHP API for importing documents into the
"internal format" (=database), and it's quite straightforward to write
plugins for different types of documents. I just made a plugin for the
Postgres documents a couple of days ago, it eats the HTML that is in
PostgreSQL site. Also it has the ability to import long html files.

Then, the software can "export" the documents in different formats as well.
The formats supported are:
- Long HTML files
- PDF (with a table of contents)
- CHM
- More can be written, ie. if you want to offer the documents the same way
as they are now on the web, that is not a big task.

Also there is the possibility to view on the web while they are in the
"internal" format.

As Postgres documentation are most probably written in quite a (highly?)
collaborative way, I think my software would be good to help you to maintain
those documents.I think Andreas just mentioned that maintaing is a bit
difficult, and this might help you. There is one type of multiauthoring
support implemented which means:
- An instructive chapter locking
- The "editing history" can be seen for every "topic", ie. who as edited a
topic and when.

What comes to keywords discussed, they can be maintained in the "index"
section. Keywords can also be read from the file by a plugin.

I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing to give up DocBook, but I cannot see
anything but benefits from using this other type of document development...

This software is now "almost ready", so it lacks small things that will be
done a in near future. I'm not asking money naturally (I shouldn't even
mention this) but to see my software in action would be enough.

A couple of urls:

Editing:
http://www.visiomode.com/help/help/
username: pg
password: 1a2s3d
(don't try to import pg documents now, please, but instead try to edit the
current one)

Viewing:
http://www.visiomode.com/help/help/starthelp.php?doc=1&amp;grp=5

Thanks,
Ilkka

ilkka@visiomode.com writes:

I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing to give up DocBook, but I cannot see
anything but benefits from using this other type of document development...

I don't see any advantages that this would have over the current setup.

--
Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net

-On [20030910 04:02], ilkka@visiomode.com (ilkka@visiomode.com) wrote:

I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing to give up DocBook, but I cannot see
anything but benefits from using this other type of document development...

It would be. Editing simple text files is less cumbersome for a
technical writer than it is to do everything on the database/front-end.

(And I work as a professional technical writer in case someone cared.)

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai
PGP fingerprint: 2D92 980E 45FE 2C28 9DB7 9D88 97E6 839B 2EAC 625B
http://www.tendra.org/ | http://www.in-nomine.org/~asmodai/diary/
A woman either loves or hates; she knows no medium. - Publilius

-On [20030908 05:02], Bruce Momjian (pgman@candle.pha.pa.us) wrote:

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

http://momjian.postgresql.org/main/writings/pgsql/win32.html

If you move to DocBook/XML and use XSL(T) you can use the htmlhelp.xsl
stylesheet and go directly to CHM from XML files.

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(at)wxs.nl> / asmodai
PGP fingerprint: 2D92 980E 45FE 2C28 9DB7 9D88 97E6 839B 2EAC 625B
http://www.tendra.org/ | http://www.in-nomine.org/~asmodai/diary/
To desire immortality is to desire the eternal perpetuation of a great
mistake...

I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing to give up DocBook, but I cannot

see

anything but benefits from using this other type of document

development...

It would be. Editing simple text files is less cumbersome for a
technical writer than it is to do everything on the database/front-end.

(And I work as a professional technical writer in case someone cared.)

Yes that makes sense...

I'll come up with something to make editing easier. Probably the whole stuff
would be in the editor at the same time..

Thanks for the feedback.

Ilkka

ilkka@visiomode.com wrote:

I'm not sure if it would be a bad thing to give up DocBook, but I cannot see
anything but benefits from using this other type of document development...

I cannot see anything but problems from using this.

- The current usage allows people to work on documents as files, using
whatever editing tools they like. With your "server software," that
is lost.

- Current usage uses CVS to manage changes. This allows changes to be
looked at and approved/rejected/modified. I haven't any idea if
your system uses text files in behind, it sounds like not.

- Current usage does not mandate that anyone have a synchronous
connection to a central server that becomes bottleneck / vulnerable
point.

The apparent "benefit" of your tool is that it provides a tool with a
user interface that slavishly follows the Windows "CHM file" viewer.
That may be an advantage to those that want to slavishly follow
Windows development/deployment "standards," but I daresay you're NOT
in a community that is particularly interested in that sort of thing.
--
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('aa454','freenet.carleton.ca').
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of *EVERYTHING* is crud.

Dave Page wrote:

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

pgAdmin already has the complete document set in chm format. The
contents files etc can be found at
http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/.

Where is the actual CHM file at that URL?

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Bruce Momjian wrote:

Dave Page wrote:

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

pgAdmin already has the complete document set in chm format. The
contents files etc can be found at
http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/.

Where is the actual CHM file at that URL?

Dave removed it from cvs, it can now be found at

http://snake.pgadmin.org/snapshots/help/en_US/pgadmin3.chm

Regards,
Andreas

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
To: "Dave Page" <dpage@vale-housing.co.uk>
Cc: <ilkka@visiomode.com>; <pgsql-docs@postgresql.org>; "PostgreSQL Win32
port list" <pgsql-hackers-win32@postgresql.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [DOCS] Windows CHM format for the
documents

Dave Page wrote:

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

pgAdmin already has the complete document set in chm format. The
contents files etc can be found at
http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/.

Where is the actual CHM file at that URL?

http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/pgadmin3.hhp
http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/pgadmin3.hhc

Are CHM project files.

There is no CHM file, because it is compiled in Make process.
You'll have to remove few pages that are actually pgadmin's help, but it is
much easier then write it again.
Pgadmin's help is organized in the way that postgresql pages are under "pg"
subdirectory, but this is nothing that simple "find-replace" cant solve. If
You wish, I'll do that, and send You the clear postgresql project files.

Regards !

Andreas Pflug wrote:

Bruce Momjian wrote:

Dave Page wrote:

I have added that to the Win32 project page:

pgAdmin already has the complete document set in chm format. The
contents files etc can be found at
http://cvs.pgadmin.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/pgadmin3/docs/en_US/.

Where is the actual CHM file at that URL?

Dave removed it from cvs, it can now be found at

http://snake.pgadmin.org/snapshots/help/en_US/pgadmin3.chm

Perfect. URL updated.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:pgman@candle.pha.pa.us]
Sent: 13 September 2003 18:05
To: Andreas Pflug
Cc: Dave Page; pgsql-docs@postgresql.org; PostgreSQL Win32 port list
Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [DOCS] Windows CHM format
for the documents

Dave removed it from cvs, it can now be found at

http://snake.pgadmin.org/snapshots/help/en_US/pgadmin3.chm

Perfect. URL updated.

Hang on, what URL? That's one of our dev boxs which has limited
bandwidth - I'm happy for us to provide the hhp/hhk files for public
consumption, but I'd rather not advertise a url to a 2+Mb file on that
particular machine.

Darko - in another email you offered to make a pgAdmin-free version. If
you can do that, I will put the project files and resulting chm file on
www.postgresql.org.

Thanks, Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: Darko Prenosil [mailto:Darko.Prenosil@finteh.hr]
Sent: 13 September 2003 22:28
To: Dave Page; Bruce Momjian; Andreas Pflug
Cc: pgsql-docs@postgresql.org; PostgreSQL Win32 port list
Subject: Re: [pgsql-hackers-win32] [DOCS] Windows CHM format
for the documents

Darko - in another email you offered to make a pgAdmin-free

version.

If you can do that, I will put the project files and resulting chm
file on www.postgresql.org.

Thanks, Dave.

Consider it done. Should I send it to Your private mail ? I
am asking because chm is large, and there will be no sense to
send it to list. I am using this opportunity to mention that
there is CHM support for docbook. Just started reading
documentation, and do not know how much work will be to
enable hhp build from current sgml, but I think that it is
work trying.

Thanks Darko, email is fine.

Regards, Dave.