First mention option for Postgres

Started by Joshua D. Drakeover 18 years ago11 messagesdocs
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#1Joshua D. Drake
jd@commandprompt.com

Hello,

I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
is quite common to see something like this:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
effect of:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.

My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
the following:

The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org

Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres. We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL and incorporates something much larger than just the
database which is nicknamed Postgres.

Bruce, would like this to happen for 8.3 Final. If he is willing to do
the work required for the change, I see it as a reasonable compromise
based on the various opinions of the community members.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
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#2Andrew Sullivan
ajs@crankycanuck.ca
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#1)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 01:25:09PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
The very first mention in these documents will same something to the

I think there's nothing wrong with doing it in the FAQ. It's
consistent with what the FAQ already says, and in any case it's what
people have been doing informally for years. As I've suggested
before (and as others have), I think doing it in formal documentation
and such like without a longer-term plan for communications is a bad
idea. But I will cheerfully shut up about it no matter what is
decided, especially since I'm not doing any of the work.

A

--
Andrew Sullivan | ajs@crankycanuck.ca
The very definition of "news" is "something that hardly ever happens."
--Bruce Schneier

#3Bruce Momjian
bruce@momjian.us
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#1)
Re: [DOCS] First mention option for Postgres

100% agree.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
-- Start of PGP signed section.

Hello,

I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
is quite common to see something like this:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
effect of:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.

My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
the following:

The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org

Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres. We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL and incorporates something much larger than just the
database which is nicknamed Postgres.

Bruce, would like this to happen for 8.3 Final. If he is willing to do
the work required for the change, I see it as a reasonable compromise
based on the various opinions of the community members.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
UNIQUE NOT NULL
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/

-- End of PGP section, PGP failed!

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

#4Dave Page
dpage@pgadmin.org
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#1)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
is quite common to see something like this:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
effect of:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.

My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
the following:

The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org

Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres. We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL and incorporates something much larger than just the
database which is nicknamed Postgres.

Bruce, would like this to happen for 8.3 Final. If he is willing to do
the work required for the change, I see it as a reasonable compromise
based on the various opinions of the community members.

I'm happy with that.

/D

#5The Hermit Hacker
scrappy@hub.org
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#1)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

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- --On Friday, October 26, 2007 13:25:09 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake"
<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:

Hello,

I am sure we are all long bored with this thread (on both sides) so I
thought I would offer a compromise. When dealing with long documents it
is quite common to see something like this:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

I propose that we could have the FAQ and the Docs do the same thing.
The very first mention in these documents will same something to the
effect of:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres, is the kick butt database
of the planet and the dolphin that can't swim doesn't even compare.

My proposal is not suggesting in *any* way that we change
the following:

The official project name, which is PostgreSQL
The domain name of the project, which is postgresql.org

Nor am I in anyway suggesting that we "promote" the name Postgres.

If every word in the documentation *except* the very first one states
'Postgres', isn't that "promoting" it? You've just relegated the word
"PostgreSQL" to a footnote as far as the documentation itself is concerned ...
and for what exactly? To save 2 bytes per occurance?

We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL

If you are going to promote the name "PostgreSQL", then it should be used on
*everything* official, not just as a leader into the documentation ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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#6Joshua D. Drake
jd@commandprompt.com
In reply to: The Hermit Hacker (#5)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:46:31 -0300
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL

If you are going to promote the name "PostgreSQL", then it should be
used on *everything* official, not just as a leader into the
documentation ...

I am Joshua D. Drake also known as jd@commandprompt.com and linuxpoet.

Guess which one gets the most hits on Google, is my Legal name?
Now guess which one is used the most in common conversation?

Joshua D. Drake

- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services
(http://www.hub.org) Email .
scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
UNIQUE NOT NULL
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/

#7The Hermit Hacker
scrappy@hub.org
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#6)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

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- --On Friday, October 26, 2007 13:54:43 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake"
<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:46:31 -0300
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

We
should instead continue our focus on promoting our project which is
PostgreSQL

If you are going to promote the name "PostgreSQL", then it should be
used on *everything* official, not just as a leader into the
documentation ...

I am Joshua D. Drake also known as jd@commandprompt.com and linuxpoet.

Guess which one gets the most hits on Google, is my Legal name?
Now guess which one is used the most in common conversation?

Which do you use on official documentation? Drivers license? Bank accounts?
Marriage license? Business documents?

You're proposal amounts to changing all of those over to 'linuxpoet', cause,
well, that's what everyone uses in conversation ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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#8The Hermit Hacker
scrappy@hub.org
In reply to: The Hermit Hacker (#7)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

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- --On Friday, October 26, 2007 18:00:32 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier"
<scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

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You're proposal amounts to changing all of those over to 'linuxpoet', cause,
well, that's what everyone uses in conversation ...

And, BTW ... your proposal, unless I miss read, was to do:

s/PostgreSQL/Postgres/g

on the docs, except for the first sentence ... that isn't even close to a
simple change of:

PostgreSQL, also known as Postgres, ...

Which *is* palatable ..

- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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#9Peter Eisentraut
peter_e@gmx.net
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#1)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

is quite common to see something like this:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

This is usually because the first thing is very long and the second is
an obvious abbreviation. But that does not apply in this case.

Changing all subsequent mentions to Postgres would effectively change
the visible project name to Postgres or at least give undue promotion
of Postgres over PostgreSQL, both of which was rejected, and while
keeping everything around it as PostgreSQL, thus creating even more
confusion.

Any sort of proposal that relies on all users of the affected document
to start by reading and fully grasping the very first sentence will not
work.

--
Peter Eisentraut
http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/

#10Joshua D. Drake
jd@commandprompt.com
In reply to: Peter Eisentraut (#9)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:47:57 +0200
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

is quite common to see something like this:

PostgreSQL hereafter referred to as Postgres

This is usually because the first thing is very long and the second
is an obvious abbreviation. But that does not apply in this case.

Changing all subsequent mentions to Postgres would effectively change
the visible project name to Postgres or at least give undue promotion
of Postgres over PostgreSQL, both of which was rejected, and while
keeping everything around it as PostgreSQL, thus creating even more
confusion.

Any sort of proposal that relies on all users of the affected
document to start by reading and fully grasping the very first
sentence will not work.

Well as I said, it was a compromise. Everyone knows what my actual
opinion is. I guess we are back where we started.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--

=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/
UNIQUE NOT NULL
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/

#11Jonah H. Harris
jonah.harris@gmail.com
In reply to: Joshua D. Drake (#10)
Re: First mention option for Postgres

On 10/26/07, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:

Well as I said, it was a compromise. Everyone knows what my actual
opinion is. I guess we are back where we started.

Looks like it.

--
Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324
EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301
499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com
Edison, NJ 08837 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/