inappropriate word 'victim'

On 10/03/2017 12:38 PM, devguy.ca@gmail.com wrote:

The following documentation comment has been logged on the website:

Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.6/static/manage-ag-dropdb.html
Description:

I am sure this would be reword

"...while connected to the victim database."

Victim seems to be an appropriate word for what is happening but I guess
I can see an argument for "subject"

"while connected to the subject database" or something else.

JD

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On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>
wrote:

On 10/03/2017 12:38 PM, devguy.ca@gmail.com wrote:

The following documentation comment has been logged on the website:

Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.6/static/manage-ag-dropdb.html
Description:

I am sure this would be reword

&quot;...while connected to the victim database.&quot;

Victim seems to be an appropriate word for what is happening but I guess I
can see an argument for "subject"

"while connected to the subject database" or something else.

​My first inclination was "target" though I suppose its not that much
closer to the supposed neutral position on this subjective scale than
"victim"​.

Subject didn't sound right either (marginally). Maybe "named" - "...while
connected to the named database."

Given that, aside from 3 release note instances, we never use the word
"victim" in the docs leads me to want to change this if just for internal
consistency.

David J.

On 10/03/2017 01:28 PM, David G. Johnston wrote:

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com

​My first inclination was "target" though I suppose its not that much
closer to the supposed neutral position on this subjective scale than
"victim"​.

Subject didn't sound right either (marginally).  Maybe "named" -
"...while connected to the named database."

Given that, aside from 3 release note instances, we never use the word
"victim" in the docs leads me to want to change this if just for
internal consistency.

Named is probably the best middle ground.

JD

David J.

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On 2017-10-03 21:53, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

On 10/03/2017 12:38 PM, devguy.ca@gmail.com wrote:

The following documentation comment has been logged on the website:

Page: https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.6/static/manage-ag-dropdb.html
Description:

I am sure this would be reword

&quot;...while connected to the victim database.&quot;

Victim seems to be an appropriate word for what is happening but I
guess I can see an argument for "subject"

"while connected to the subject database" or something else.

JD

I find 'victim database' admirably clear in conjunction with DROP
DATABASE.

Let's not change it.

Erik Rijkers

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On Oct 3, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:

On 10/03/2017 01:28 PM, David G. Johnston wrote:

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 12:53 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com

​My first inclination was "target" though I suppose its not that much closer to the supposed neutral position on this subjective scale than "victim"​.
Subject didn't sound right either (marginally). Maybe "named" - "...while connected to the named database."
Given that, aside from 3 release note instances, we never use the word "victim" in the docs leads me to want to change this if just for internal consistency.

Named is probably the best middle ground.

If you click into the documentation for DROP DATABASE [https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/sql-dropdatabase.html <https://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/sql-dropdatabase.html&gt;] you get:

"Also, it cannot be executed while you or anyone else are connected to the target database."

So there is a precedent for using “target” for this command.

Jonathan

"Jonathan S. Katz" <jkatz@postgresql.org> writes:

So there is a precedent for using “target” for this command.

I wouldn't object to substituting "target" for "victim"; they're both
pretty specific, and there's little risk of misunderstanding which
database is meant. I don't know if that amounts to much of an
advance in political correctness, though.

I'm less happy about substituting vaguer words like "subject".
Particularly for non-native English speakers, that seems like it
could be confusing --- eg, if you know the distinction between
subject and object of a sentence, you might think it means the
DB where the command is being issued.

regards, tom lane

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Tom, all,

* Tom Lane (tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:

"Jonathan S. Katz" <jkatz@postgresql.org> writes:

So there is a precedent for using “target” for this command.

I wouldn't object to substituting "target" for "victim"; they're both
pretty specific, and there's little risk of misunderstanding which
database is meant. I don't know if that amounts to much of an
advance in political correctness, though.

Based on my review of what 'dict' returns for each, 'target' is
distinctly more appropriate. Both definitions in WordNet for
'victim' refer to a 'person' and other dictionaries definitely
refer to 'person or living creature' more than not.

The definitions for 'target', on the other hand, more generally refer to
a goal or something which is being shot at and the references to
'person' in those definitions appears more in the vein of "covering all
bases" as it relates to 'person, place, or thing'.

I'm less happy about substituting vaguer words like "subject".
Particularly for non-native English speakers, that seems like it
could be confusing --- eg, if you know the distinction between
subject and object of a sentence, you might think it means the
DB where the command is being issued.

Agreed.

Thanks!

Stephen

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> wrote:

Tom, all,

* Tom Lane (tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:

"Jonathan S. Katz" <jkatz@postgresql.org> writes:

So there is a precedent for using “target” for this command.

I wouldn't object to substituting "target" for "victim"; they're both
pretty specific, and there's little risk of misunderstanding which
database is meant. I don't know if that amounts to much of an
advance in political correctness, though.

Based on my review of what 'dict' returns for each, 'target' is
distinctly more appropriate. Both definitions in WordNet for
'victim' refer to a 'person' and other dictionaries definitely
refer to 'person or living creature' more than not.

As a non-native English speaker I associate 'victim' with a person, so
'target' sound more neutral and enough informative.

The definitions for 'target', on the other hand, more generally refer to
a goal or something which is being shot at and the references to
'person' in those definitions appears more in the vein of "covering all
bases" as it relates to 'person, place, or thing'.

I'm less happy about substituting vaguer words like "subject".
Particularly for non-native English speakers, that seems like it
could be confusing --- eg, if you know the distinction between
subject and object of a sentence, you might think it means the
DB where the command is being issued.

Agreed.

Thanks!

Stephen

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