Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

I was asked to develop a reasonably large database application for my
company intranet. My boss comes from a heavily windows background and wanted
it all developed in MS Access etc but we're basically a UNIX house and I
knew that would cause havoc with the software developers around here (and
myself) who much prefer the UNIX way of doing things (and oftentimes run
Linux as their Desktop OS).

What did I do? I developed the application using a PostgreSQL backend with a
web interface (I used Perl for rapid development, but would have preferred
Java Servlets), and then used the ODBC drivers to connect Access to allow
MSOffice automation and custom queries within Access so the boss can create
his custom reports if he likes. Now I have the best of all worlds: Reliable
backend (PostgreSQL), a platform neutral frontend (Web Interface) and Office
automation through ODBC.

Works for me!

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Hermit Hacker" <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "Kapil Tilwani" <tilwani@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

Have you looked at the available ODBC drivers?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani wrote:

help
Hi,

I am a fresh graduate from India in commerce and do
know a little about programming using VB, Java and
Oracle... I, along with 5 more friends, have received
a small-time project (small for u guys, major for us)
for developing a small application

We are considering one of the foll.options
A. Totally Linux
a. Only option is using Swings and Postgres/MySQL
Though this would technically be the best option...
But, in India, it is like only Windows is the
well-known client-side operating system

B. Norma for Indian
a. Linux Server and Windows client
b. Windows Server and Windows client

Here, my problem is a very simple one... I need to
put my Postgres on a Windows server (this is
optional... I can convince my project-giver to go in
for a Linux server) ...
However, I have a problem in that at least my clients
would all be Windows-based... So, how do I install the
clients... Can I get some kind of wizarded- .exe file
for that... and where?
Also, how do I make the connection between the Windows
Server and the client... How do I specify... please
could u send details rather than a quick overview ...
It would be highly appreciative
Lastly, is it possible to have a Linux as a server and
the Windows clients interacting with this server...
and pleaaaaaaseeeee plz tell me how to do that... If
possible, please be descriptive and help me to do
that...

All I can say is that I will pay back to the community
all the favours and more... PLEASE HELP... YOU CAN
NOT REALLY MAKE OUT HOW FRUSTRATING THIS IS BECOMING

Also, could u just give me yr unofficial comments on
Interbase... Is it good enough? ...or MySQL for that
matter?

Are there any free downloadable development packages
for Postgres and Java... Something better than Forte
for Java

Thanx
Kapil

P.S. : Where am I reqd. to post my queries related to
Postgres, Java , Interbase...

--- The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: >

could you resend the original? I tried to read
through what you tried to
post, and couldn't get past line one before it got
all jumbled :(

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani
wrote:

help

As per the advice of Mr. Bruce M. , I sent my mail

to

pgsql-general@postgresql.org and
majordomo@postgresql.org, but every mail is

bouncing

back... Please help

Note: forwarded message attached.

=====
Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness +

Security !!

From Kapil C. Tilwani

____________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at

http://mail.yahoo.co.uk

or your free @yahoo.ie address at

http://mail.yahoo.ie

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664
IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary:
scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

=====
Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness + Security !!

From Kapil C. Tilwani

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick:

Scrappy

Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary:

scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

help
Hi,
It would work fine to have a web interface in case the
application could be developed with that... In fact,
we had started working on the project with PG and Java
Servlets et al... However, we ran into problems after
a month of designing and actual implementaiton work
was over only because the browser / HTML is too
static...
a. Extensive coding is reqd. for datatypes
validations on all forms and reports for filtering,
etc.
b. Added functionality would result in havoc for
adding features like Grids as in MS-Access like
forms-subforms and browsing thru such records in order

c. Non-use of client-side processing capacity i.e.,
under-utilisation and over-burdening the server which
would in case of client-server be just handling data
which would make it much more reliable
d. The client would not shell out a single penny when
I tell him that two servers would be ideal for him...
One for handling data the other for handling http
requests
e. Moving away from Windows is impossible fof him...
He has not heard that there is any other OS other than
Windows
f. The client is not a jackass... I cant conn him...
He knows what all he wants in his software
g. I am keen on PG/Interbase
h. I KNOW YOU CAN HELP... SO, KINDLY DO
i. This MS-Office interface you are talking about...
That would involve a lot of wizardry/programming...

Thanx
Kapil

--- Mark Cowlishaw <markc@ot.com.au> wrote: > 

I was asked to develop a reasonably large database
application for my
company intranet. My boss comes from a heavily
windows background and wanted
it all developed in MS Access etc but we're
basically a UNIX house and I
knew that would cause havoc with the software
developers around here (and
myself) who much prefer the UNIX way of doing things
(and oftentimes run
Linux as their Desktop OS).

What did I do? I developed the application using a
PostgreSQL backend with a
web interface (I used Perl for rapid development,
but would have preferred
Java Servlets), and then used the ODBC drivers to
connect Access to allow
MSOffice automation and custom queries within Access
so the boss can create
his custom reports if he likes. Now I have the best
of all worlds: Reliable
backend (PostgreSQL), a platform neutral frontend
(Web Interface) and Office
automation through ODBC.

Works for me!

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Hermit Hacker" <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "Kapil Tilwani" <tilwani@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

Have you looked at the available ODBC drivers?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani

wrote:

help
Hi,

I am a fresh graduate from India in commerce and

do

know a little about programming using VB, Java

and

Oracle... I, along with 5 more friends, have

received

a small-time project (small for u guys, major

for us)

for developing a small application

We are considering one of the foll.options
A. Totally Linux
a. Only option is using Swings and

Postgres/MySQL

Though this would technically be the best

option...

But, in India, it is like only Windows is the
well-known client-side operating system

B. Norma for Indian
a. Linux Server and Windows client
b. Windows Server and Windows client

Here, my problem is a very simple one... I need

to

put my Postgres on a Windows server (this is
optional... I can convince my project-giver to

go in

for a Linux server) ...
However, I have a problem in that at least my

clients

would all be Windows-based... So, how do I

install the

clients... Can I get some kind of wizarded- .exe

file

for that... and where?
Also, how do I make the connection between the

Windows

Server and the client... How do I specify...

please

could u send details rather than a quick

overview ...

It would be highly appreciative
Lastly, is it possible to have a Linux as a

server and

the Windows clients interacting with this

server...

and pleaaaaaaseeeee plz tell me how to do

that... If

possible, please be descriptive and help me to

do

that...

All I can say is that I will pay back to the

community

all the favours and more... PLEASE HELP... YOU

CAN

NOT REALLY MAKE OUT HOW FRUSTRATING THIS IS

BECOMING

Also, could u just give me yr unofficial

comments on

Interbase... Is it good enough? ...or MySQL for

that

matter?

Are there any free downloadable development

packages

for Postgres and Java... Something better than

Forte

for Java

Thanx
Kapil

P.S. : Where am I reqd. to post my queries

related to

Postgres, Java , Interbase...

--- The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: >

could you resend the original? I tried to

read

through what you tried to
post, and couldn't get past line one before it

got

all jumbled :(

On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil

Tilwani

wrote:

help

As per the advice of Mr. Bruce M. , I sent

my mail

to

pgsql-general@postgresql.org and
majordomo@postgresql.org, but every mail is

bouncing

back... Please help

Note: forwarded message attached.

=====
Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
One Life One Partner - One Result =

Happiness +

Security !!

From Kapil C. Tilwani

____________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at

http://mail.yahoo.co.uk

or your free @yahoo.ie address at

http://mail.yahoo.ie

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664
IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary:
scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

=====
Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness +

Security !!

From Kapil C. Tilwani

____________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at

http://mail.yahoo.co.uk

or your free @yahoo.ie address at

http://mail.yahoo.ie

Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664

IRC Nick:
Scrappy

Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary:

scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org

=====
Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness + Security !!

From Kapil C. Tilwani

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

help
Hi,
It would work fine to have a web interface in case the
application could be developed with that... In fact,
we had started working on the project with PG and Java
Servlets et al... However, we ran into problems after
a month of designing and actual implementaiton work
was over only because the browser / HTML is too
static...
a. Extensive coding is reqd. for datatypes
validations on all forms and reports for filtering,
etc.

True you have to do server-side validation, but then if you're sensible
you'll be doing that anyway regardless of your client side validation (what
about when people turn javascript off for example?).

b. Added functionality would result in havoc for
adding features like Grids as in MS-Access like
forms-subforms and browsing thru such records in order

Yup, HTML forms are a bit lacking in that regard.. you may consider java
applets running in the browser for that kind of functionality, or maybe some
DHTML..

c. Non-use of client-side processing capacity i.e.,
under-utilisation and over-burdening the server which
would in case of client-server be just handling data
which would make it much more reliable

This is questionable, dynamic clients such as an Access/VB front-end talking
to a SQL backend will probably be running a LOT of queries dynamically
datafilling drop-down menus etc, plus you've got the network overhead you
wouldnt have when running the application code on the same box as the SQL
server.

d. The client would not shell out a single penny when
I tell him that two servers would be ideal for him...
One for handling data the other for handling http
requests

Why need two servers? Apache (or PostgreSQL) doesn't take that much
overhead. If they expect so much traffic they need two servers, surely they
expect to spend some money somewhere?!

e. Moving away from Windows is impossible fof him...
He has not heard that there is any other OS other than
Windows

Okay if they have a windows fixation, Access/VB Frontend tied in with ODBC
is a possibility. But then, I dont think the web interface is completely
ruled out by your arguments. Alternatively there's always the java
application frontend (or applets running in a browser).

f. The client is not a jackass... I cant conn him...
He knows what all he wants in his software

Well he has a pre-formed opinion that the solution -will-be-windows- ..
whatever that means. Give him an Access Frontend if that will make him
happy. Making bosses happy can be a good thing and you can do worse than
Access for a rapid development environment.

g. I am keen on PG/Interbase

PG works for me. Can't say I have experience with Interbase.

h. I KNOW YOU CAN HELP... SO, KINDLY DO

Well you have to do -some- work yourself ;-)

i. This MS-Office interface you are talking about...
That would involve a lot of wizardry/programming...

Installing the ODBC drivers does not take wizardry, nor does figuring out
table linking in Access, nor mail merging in Word.