More Red Hat information

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Here is a link with more information than the press release:

http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/

$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???

David

--
David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory
David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394
Yahoo!: dew7e
Jabber: Theory@jabber.org

* David Wheeler <David@Wheeler.net> wrote:

| >
| > http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/
|
| $2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???
|

Too cheap for you ? try Oracle pay more - get less ;-)

Sorry couldn't resist.

--
Gunnar R�nning - gunnar@polygnosis.com
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/

Then keep using it free. And the people whose management can't fathom the
idea of using a serious application without an expensive support contract to
fall back on might finally be interested in PostgreSQL. I can't see this as
anything but win-win...

Greg

At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Here is a link with more information than the press release:

http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/

$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???

If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support
from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the
runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report?
*), it's cheap as dirt as databases go.

*: Oops, sorry, of course M$ doesn't have bugs. They might have
"issues". Or "features".
--
Matthias Urlichs

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Here is a link with more information than the press release:

http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/

$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???

If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support
from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the
runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report?
*), it's cheap as dirt as databases go.

M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a
few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the
price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's
cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD).

David

--
David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory
David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394
Yahoo!: dew7e
Jabber: Theory@jabber.org

Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses
but last time I looked it was at least �7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100
user
license. Thats not the enterprise edition either.

In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
platform you look at :)

MC.

At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Here is a link with more information than the press release:

http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/

$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???

If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support
from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the
runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report?
*), it's cheap as dirt as databases go.

M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a
few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the
price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's
cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD).

David

--
David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory
David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394
Yahoo!: dew7e
Jabber:
Theory@jabber.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

--

NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is
intended by Convergys Corporation for the use of the named individual or
entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is
privileged or otherwise confidential. If you have received this electronic
mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without
copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email
or by telephone (collect), so that the sender's address records can be
corrected.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:41:29AM -0700, David Wheeler wrote:

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Matthias Urlichs wrote:

At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Here is a link with more information than the press release:

http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/

$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???

If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support
from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the
runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report?
*), it's cheap as dirt as databases go.

M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a
few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the
price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's
cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD).

Try about $5000 for about 30 people. They're now doing a per cpu
pricing thing, so it depends how many users and/or how many cpu's (I
think for per-user licensing stops at 20 or 25, then you must switch to
the per cpu licensing). Unless you were talking about Access?

--
Eric G. Miller <egm2@jps.net>

I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database
is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to
buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web
page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but
licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the
server is supporting any internet application.

martin.chantler%convergys.com@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/26/2001 11:14:13 AM

To: pgsql-general%postgresql.org@interlock.lexmark.com
cc: (bcc: Wesley Sheldahl/Lex/Lexmark)
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] More Red Hat information

Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses
but last time I looked it was at least �7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100
user
license. Thats not the enterprise edition either.

In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
platform you look at :)

MC.

At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Here is a link with more information than the press release:

http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/

$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*???

If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support
from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the
runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report?
*), it's cheap as dirt as databases go.

M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a
few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the
price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's
cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD).

David

--
David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory
David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394
Yahoo!: dew7e
Jabber:
Theory@jabber.org

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

--

NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is
intended by Convergys Corporation for the use of the named individual or
entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is
privileged or otherwise confidential. If you have received this electronic
mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without
copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email
or by telephone (collect), so that the sender's address records can be
corrected.

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
(send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)

M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a
few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the
price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's
cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD).

FYI: Current SQL Server 2000 Prices on Output.com

$4,800 Std. Ed. (1 Processor License)
$2,119 Std. Ed. (10 Device Licenses)
$859 Ent. Ed. (10 Clients) Academic Version
$6,100 Ent. Ed. (25 Clients) Academic Version
$1,429 Std. Ed. (5 Device Licenses)
$709 Std. Ed. (5 Device Licenses) Competitive/Version Upgrade
$10,660 Ent. Ed. (25 Device Licenses)
$19,250 Ent. Ed. (Upgrade With 1 Processor License)

I have no idea what a "Device License" is but it looks like the cheapest
route (excluding accedemic and upgrade versions) is $1429. That problably
does not include much in the way of support, only runs on Win2K which will
cost you a few hundred dollars more and if your site is of any size the 5
device limit may be a problem.

Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses
but last time I looked it was at least ?7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100
user
license. Thats not the enterprise edition either.

In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
platform you look at :)

20k per CPU. See:

http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO61438,00.html

for the story and:

http://www.computerworld.com/computerworld/records/images/pdf/2001_25_p7.pdf

for a comparison chart.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 martin.chantler@convergys.com wrote:

Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses
but last time I looked it was at least �7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100
user license. Thats not the enterprise edition either.

In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
platform you look at :)

Excellent point. I'd forgotten about the user license. Yet another
reminder why I'm glad I don't use SQL Server or Oracle anymore.

David

--
David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory
David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394
Yahoo!: dew7e
Jabber: Theory@jabber.org

wsheldah@lexmark.com wrote:

I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database
is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to
buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web
page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but
licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the
server is supporting any internet application.

I posted the cost of 4D licence for web connected database and 10 local
clients a few days ago: about $4475

Cheers

Tony Grant

--
RedHat Linux on Sony Vaio C1XD/S
http://www.animaproductions.com/linux2.html
Macromedia UltraDev with PostgreSQL
http://www.animaproductions.com/ultra.html

On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:57:55AM -0400, some SMTP stream spewed forth:

I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database
is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to
buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web
page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but
licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the
server is supporting any internet application.

I believe "user" refers to simultaneous connections. I could be wrong.

Look at this way:
PostgreSQL: free
MS SQL: not free

Hm, tough one. (And, I think I could figure out a new database for less
than a few grand.) ;-)

gh

In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
platform you look at :)

20k per CPU. See:

Word is that the 2006 Microsoft automobiles will have similar pricing
structures. You'll pay $8,000 per year for each "seat-license" that you
want, and another $2,000 per year for each 10 mph above 30 that you want
to be able to drive...

steve

Hi,

David Wheeler:

M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a
few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the
price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's
cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD).

RHDB has a price tag of zero if all you need is the database.

This is not what I was talking about, though.

--
Matthias Urlichs | noris network AG | http://smurf.noris.de/

On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 wsheldah@lexmark.com wrote:

I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database
is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to
buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web
page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but
licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the
server is supporting any internet application.

Don't misunderstand. Per-user licenses are for *simultaneous*
connections. Usually, 100 users is enough, and can be greatly offset by
proper use of caching.

I'm wondering if that's why Oracle changed their pricing structure to be
based on machine strength. That way, they can charge for the peak
abilities of the machine the DB is running on. Since I know I like to
make my DB server overly powerful for scalability, this seems like
extortion. But they have a point. A machine that is more powerful can
more capably serve more connections - and they want you to pay for it.

Either way, it's not really a mystery. Just send the vendor a request for
an estimate based on your needs - and make sure to ask for an explanation.

--
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
| Shaun M. Thomas                INN Database Programmer              |
| Phone: (309) 743-0812          Fax  : (309) 743-0830                |
| Email: sthomas@townnews.com    AIM  : trifthen                      |
| Web  : hamster.lee.net                                              |
|                                                                     |
|     "Most of our lives are about proving something, either to       |
|      ourselves or to someone else."                                 |
|                                           -- Anonymous              |
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+