PostgreSQL versus MySQL

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake

Too bad the symbol of Oracle Corp. isn't a peanut...

Mike Mascari
mascarm@mascari.com

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Hey Josh, what about some t-shirts with this on the back and some
snappy verbiage above/below the image? Just a thought, but maybe
that's something the advocacy team could run with depending on who
owns the copyright to the image. -sc

--
Sean Chittenden

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:04 pm, Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Hey Josh, what about some t-shirts with this on the back and some
snappy verbiage above/below the image? Just a thought, but maybe
that's something the advocacy team could run with depending on who
owns the copyright to the image. -sc

If the dolphin were in a different setting, one could wonder if it got caught
in a .net

;-)

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Oh. My. God. That is just so wrong.

But I want a TShirt with that on it so bad... :-)

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Is that available in a higher res version, I'd really like it as a
background on my 1600x1200 desktop.

Andrew L. Gould wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:04 pm, Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Not exactly the kind of image I'd like to project, especially since I
care about dolphins (at least non-iconified dolphins)

--
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Independent Programmer/Analyst Passport 4GL
PHP HTML Composer PostgreSQL Informix 4GL, SQL
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Hello,

We own the copyright. I would not be opposed to putting it on a shirt.

J

Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Hey Josh, what about some t-shirts with this on the back and some
snappy verbiage above/below the image? Just a thought, but maybe
that's something the advocacy team could run with depending on who
owns the copyright to the image. -sc

-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

sean@chittenden.org (Sean Chittenden) writes:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Hey Josh, what about some t-shirts with this on the back and some
snappy verbiage above/below the image? Just a thought, but maybe
that's something the advocacy team could run with depending on who
owns the copyright to the image. -sc

I'm not sure this presents quite the right message.

A coworker made the snide remark that anyone that doesn't totally "get
it" is likely to really wonder about the notion of roasting a dolphin
over a spit.

Roasting dolphins over the fire isn't exactly politically correct, and
the only people that could "get it" as being funny are those that are
in the advocacy group.

And I thought that MySQL _wasn't_ the real competition, and that the
PostgreSQL community had higher standards and such...

(Note, I say this all as one of the politically-incorrect people that
find jokes involving furry creatures being blown up to be outrageously
funny at some weird visceral level.)
--
"cbbrowne","@","libertyrms.info"
<http://dev6.int.libertyrms.com/&gt;
Christopher Browne
(416) 646 3304 x124 (land)

On Thursday 18 September 2003 2:45 pm, Scott Holmes wrote:

Andrew L. Gould wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:04 pm, Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.j
pg

Not exactly the kind of image I'd like to project, especially since
I care about dolphins (at least non-iconified dolphins)

More to the point, why is it deemed necessary to equate PostgreSQL
with MySQL? Constantly doing that creates the image that the two are
somehow comparable products (and that PostgreSQL has an inferiority
complex).

BMW might compare its cars to Mercedes or other cars percieved to be
in the "luxury class" but it would never compare them to Ford or
Hyundai - to do so would create the impression that BMW and Hyundai
are in the same class. PostgreSQL should do the same.

I think the much more effective pitch is the dismissive one: sure, you
can get a lot done with MySQL - it will probably work fine for many
projects...Oh, but what about true transactions - are you ever going
to need those? Or bulletproof reliability? Or true MVCC? Have you
looked into the license restrictions? We just wanted you to know that
when you run into these issues in MySQL, we'll be here for you.

Meanwhile, if we want to pick a fight we should at least pick one with
a database in our own class.

Cheers,
Steve

Hello,

O.k. boys here ya go:

http://www.cafeshops.com/linuxports

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake

scott.marlowe wrote:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Is that available in a higher res version, I'd really like it as a
background on my 1600x1200 desktop.

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

I think in the interest of good neighborliness that something be put in
the image like the elephant winking, and/or, the dolphin saying, "we
sure have fun playing together", or a overlaid byline like, "Another
open source domination theme debunked", or whatever.

Just my $0.02 and 0.56 rubles.

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

I would agree with you from a technical perspective but the reality is
the most used Open Source
databases are MySQL and PostgreSQL so there is a logical comparison.

Sincerley,

Joshua Drake

Steve Crawford wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 2:45 pm, Scott Holmes wrote:

Andrew L. Gould wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:04 pm, Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.j
pg

Not exactly the kind of image I'd like to project, especially since
I care about dolphins (at least non-iconified dolphins)

More to the point, why is it deemed necessary to equate PostgreSQL
with MySQL? Constantly doing that creates the image that the two are
somehow comparable products (and that PostgreSQL has an inferiority
complex).

BMW might compare its cars to Mercedes or other cars percieved to be
in the "luxury class" but it would never compare them to Ford or
Hyundai - to do so would create the impression that BMW and Hyundai
are in the same class. PostgreSQL should do the same.

I think the much more effective pitch is the dismissive one: sure, you
can get a lot done with MySQL - it will probably work fine for many
projects...Oh, but what about true transactions - are you ever going
to need those? Or bulletproof reliability? Or true MVCC? Have you
looked into the license restrictions? We just wanted you to know that
when you run into these issues in MySQL, we'll be here for you.

Meanwhile, if we want to pick a fight we should at least pick one with
a database in our own class.

Cheers,
Steve

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

Hello,

MySQL has over 15 million dollars in capital. We have comics.

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake

Dennis Gearon wrote:

I think in the interest of good neighborliness that something be put
in the image like the elephant winking, and/or, the dolphin saying,
"we sure have fun playing together", or a overlaid byline like,
"Another open source domination theme debunked", or whatever.

Just my $0.02 and 0.56 rubles.

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

We own the copyright. I would not be opposed to putting it on a shirt.

J

Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Hey Josh, what about some t-shirts with this on the back and some
snappy verbiage above/below the image? Just a thought, but maybe
that's something the advocacy team could run with depending on who
owns the copyright to the image. -sc

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

LOL, good points!

OTOH, until we fix some of the problems we have been talking about in
the last week, we are kind of BETWEEN mysql and other databases.

Postgres is far better than Mysql, though, not a near cousin.

Steve Crawford wrote:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Dennis Gearon wrote:

I think in the interest of good neighborliness that something be put in
the image like the elephant winking, and/or, the dolphin saying, "we
sure have fun playing together", or a overlaid byline like, "Another
open source domination theme debunked", or whatever.

Just my $0.02 and 0.56 rubles.

Oh come off it! Surely 2 cents is worth more than 0.56 rubles!

--
Nigel J. Andrews
...who gave up counting at one stage and started using notes in units of "a
wodge".

Nigel J. Andrews wrote:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Dennis Gearon wrote:

I think in the interest of good neighborliness that something be put in
the image like the elephant winking, and/or, the dolphin saying, "we
sure have fun playing together", or a overlaid byline like, "Another
open source domination theme debunked", or whatever.

Just my $0.02 and 0.56 rubles.

Oh come off it! Surely 2 cents is worth more than 0.56 rubles!

as of 2003.09.18 23:15:31 GMT
$0.02 USD == 0.610182 RUR

:P

--
Anthony Best <abest@digitalflex.net>
Consultant, DigitalFlex LLC
801-541-5013

Or perhaps the image could be used exactly as shown - with the dolphin on the spit - except that the dolphin could be encased in an aquarium to make it clear that it is not being harmed.

-Roger

Dennis Gearon wrote:

I think in the interest of good neighborliness that something be put
in the image like the elephant winking, and/or, the dolphin saying,
"we sure have fun playing together", or a overlaid byline like,
"Another open source domination theme debunked", or whatever.

Just my $0.02 and 0.56 rubles.

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

Hello,

We own the copyright. I would not be opposed to putting it on a shirt.

J

Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Hey Josh, what about some t-shirts with this on the back and some
snappy verbiage above/below the image? Just a thought, but maybe
that's something the advocacy team could run with depending on who
owns the copyright to the image. -sc

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings

-- 
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
The most reliable support for the most reliable Open Source database.

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On Thu, 18 Sep 2003, Steve Crawford wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 2:45 pm, Scott Holmes wrote:

Andrew L. Gould wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:04 pm, Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.j
pg

Not exactly the kind of image I'd like to project, especially since
I care about dolphins (at least non-iconified dolphins)

More to the point, why is it deemed necessary to equate PostgreSQL
with MySQL? Constantly doing that creates the image that the two are
somehow comparable products (and that PostgreSQL has an inferiority
complex).

I think that MySQL and Postgresql tend to occupy different problem
solution spaces. There's some overlap, but generally, I recommend MySQL
for CMS stuff, where multiple collations and built in full text indexing
are needed, and where you don't want to have to worry about tuning or
maintaining the database to get good performance. These are situations
where writes are heavily outnumbered by reads, and MySQL seems a good fit.

Postgresql is better for doing things with numbers, transactions, complex
data sets, and environments where writes make up a large portion of what
the database is doing.

Unfortunately, MySQL is busily trying to market themselves into the space
that Postgresql is so much better at, and they're doing a pretty good job
of it.

While I wouldn't wear the Elephant roasting a Dolphin TShirt to while
trying to make a "sale" of Postgresql over MySQL, I'd certainly wear it
around some of my LUG buddies, who would likely "get it".

A lot of my friends think I'm a MySQL bigot, even though when I'm
comparing MySQL to Postgresql, I'm generally pointing out one wart in
Postgresql for each one in MySQL. The lack of multiple locale support
within a single cluster, lack of an integrated vacuum method, need for
more sysadmin skill / time in maintenance and tuning, slow aggregate
performance, etc...

But often, all they're hearing are the negatives MySQL has if I'm
comparing. Why? Because they've had smoke blown up their orifices about
how great MySQL is and how it can do anything Postgresql can do now that
it has innodb tables. Why have they heard this so much? MySQL has the
budget to keep putting out press releases and paying for more people to
give speeches than Postgresql.

And MySQL doesn't fight fair in my opinion.

they still claim to have ACID compliance, an issue I've discussed with a
few of the folks from MySQL AB. To them, the C in ACID only implies fk
constraints. The fact that they ignore base type constraints (i.e. insert
8 billion into an int4 and it just sets the field to the max value an int4
can hold (2gig) and generates no error seems to not bother them.

Well, it bothers me, and it should bother their users, but they gloss
right over their own warts while pointing out ours.

To this day their crashme suite lists the maximum query size of Postgresql
as 16 Megs. I've told them many times it's not limited. Have they
changed it? No. Why? Because it looks a lot better to say MySQL has a
maximum query size of 1 meg versus 16 meg for pgsql than to admit that
it's their 1 meg versus our UNLIMITED.

While I'm not sure the TShirts are the answer, I would gladly wear one to
a LUG meeting in order to be a lightening rod for questions about pgsql.
and if it generates discussion and someone finds out they've been LIED to
by MySQL AB, all the better.

BMW might compare its cars to Mercedes or other cars percieved to be
in the "luxury class" but it would never compare them to Ford or
Hyundai - to do so would create the impression that BMW and Hyundai
are in the same class. PostgreSQL should do the same.

But we don't have the luxury of Mercedes of already owning a large chunk
of the market, and MySQL already spends a fair amount of effort targeting
us. Like it or not, many folks DO compare us to them, and will continue
to do so until they have been enlightened.

I think the much more effective pitch is the dismissive one: sure, you
can get a lot done with MySQL - it will probably work fine for many
projects...Oh, but what about true transactions - are you ever going
to need those? Or bulletproof reliability? Or true MVCC? Have you
looked into the license restrictions? We just wanted you to know that
when you run into these issues in MySQL, we'll be here for you.

I think the best response is the informed one. And the fair and level
headed one.

Sure, MySQL is a great storage subsystem for text and web content. I
wouldn't use it to run the payroll though, and here's why...

Meanwhile, if we want to pick a fight we should at least pick one with
a database in our own class.

I think MySQL is in our class in some ways, and we're in Oracle's class in
many ways. What matters is not what class we and they are in, but what
class we and they are PERCEIVED to be in. And most average users equate
us as being similar, because they don't know better. Pointing out where
each database is strong, while making it clear that Postgresql is the
heavy lifting winner is my approach, and it works quite well.

The worse thing that can happen for Postgresql is for someone to move an
application from MySQL to Postgresql if that application is better suited
to MySQL. and those applications exist. Being honest and fair will win
hearts and minds, and when they need the Saturn 4 instead of the Estes
rocket, they'll remember who to come to.

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:45 pm, Scott Holmes wrote:

Andrew L. Gould wrote:

On Thursday 18 September 2003 04:04 pm, Sean Chittenden wrote:

I think the below just about says it all:

http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg

Not exactly the kind of image I'd like to project, especially since I
care about dolphins (at least non-iconified dolphins)

We're among friends; and, quite frankly, I needed a good laugh today. I don't
think any of us plan run the image up a flag pole.