Native Win32 port - PLEASE!

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Mayo [mailto:ajmayo@my-deja.com]
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:28 AM
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: [GENERAL] Native Win32 port - PLEASE!

PLEASE .... can we have the native Win32 port SOON.

It will totally and utterly hurt Microsoft in a very
important area to have this port. Why?

Well, many of you will know that MS give away a cut-down
version of SQL Server (MSDE) and this is bundled with a *lot*
of Win32 apps.

Now, MSDE is pretty good, though it is a nightmare to
upgrade, for various reasons - but there are fishhooks in the
license agreement that worry a lot of people - particularly,
a clause about replication that could be interpreted in ways
that would suddenly require users to pay MS large wads of cash.

And MSDE is deliberately crippled; five concurrent users, max
2G database size.

"Hurry because it will hurt someone." is a silly reason to push for
something.

Far better is "Hurry because it will benefit someone."

IMO-YMMV.

Many vendors (including the one I work for) would be very
very very interested in looking at PostgreSQL as an
alternative BUT it NEEDS to run natively on Windows (not via Cygwin)

If it did, I can see real inroads being made into 'mindspace'
here and a huge increase in PostgreSQL usage - it would
become ubiquitous as a 21st century database - and porting to
Win32 therefore helps, not hinders, the open source movement.

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I
believe you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

It's already almost there. Since it is an open source project, you can
always help if you want.
You can download it and build it yourself with Mingw if you want to play
with what is available now.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 02:28:10AM -0800, Andrew Mayo wrote:

PLEASE .... can we have the native Win32 port SOON.

I don't think anyone is dragging their heels on purpose. If it's
that important to you, consider contributing either in code or in
paid developer time.

A

--
Andrew Sullivan | ajs@crankycanuck.ca

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I believe
you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

I'm sure quietly begging certain developers with your pocekt book
probably wouldn't hurt your cause either. :)

Actually though from what I read here on this list native win32 support
is almost ceranily going to be included in the next major release of
postgres with will probably come out sometime in the next 6-9 month.

Am I right on this?

On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 02:28:10 -0800,
Andrew Mayo <ajmayo@my-deja.com> wrote:

PLEASE .... can we have the native Win32 port SOON.

It will totally and utterly hurt Microsoft in a very important area to
have this port. Why?

People are working on it and from what I have seen on the lists the port
is going well and will be available as part of the 7.5 release.

On 26/03/2004 10:28 Andrew Mayo wrote:

PLEASE .... can we have the native Win32 port SOON.

It will totally and utterly hurt Microsoft in a very important area to
have this port. Why?

Well, many of you will know that MS give away a cut-down version of
SQL Server (MSDE) and this is bundled with a *lot* of Win32 apps.

Now, MSDE is pretty good, though it is a nightmare to upgrade, for
various reasons - but there are fishhooks in the license agreement
that worry a lot of people - particularly, a clause about replication
that could be interpreted in ways that would suddenly require users to
pay MS large wads of cash.

And MSDE is deliberately crippled; five concurrent users, max 2G
database size.

Many vendors (including the one I work for) would be very very very
interested in looking at PostgreSQL as an alternative BUT it NEEDS to
run natively on Windows (not via Cygwin)

If you read the list archives for hackers and win32, I think you'll see
that a non-Cygwin port is what is being undetaken right now. As with
pretty-well all OSS the limiting factor is available resources. An
enlightened company which would make money on the back of a win32 port
would obviously offer to donate programmer (as in _experienced_ C/win32
rather than junior/novice) time to help the port along.

If it did, I can see real inroads being made into 'mindspace' here and
a huge increase in PostgreSQL usage - it would become ubiquitous as a
21st century database - and porting to Win32 therefore helps, not
hinders, the open source movement.

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I believe
you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

I think everyone in the core and advocacy teams is well aware of this as
are most of the other mailing-list regulars.

-- 
Paul Thomas
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for 
Business             |
| Computer Consultants         | 
http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk   |
+------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+

Andrew Mayo wrote:

PLEASE .... can we have the native Win32 port SOON.

All I can tell you is that a lot of energy and code is being thrown at
this problem and a lot of progress has been make. While it's not done
yet, it certainly appears that 7.5 will include a native win32 port!
But as is the way with open source, there are no promises.

If you are really interested, join the win32 mailing list and contribute.

Matthew

--- Rick Gigger <rick@alpinenetworking.com> wrote:

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite

this port. I believe

you will be utterly astonished at the demand.

Please.....

I'm sure quietly begging certain developers with
your pocekt book
probably wouldn't hurt your cause either. :)

Actually though from what I read here on this list
native win32 support
is almost ceranily going to be included in the next
major release of
postgres with will probably come out sometime in the
next 6-9 month.

According to recent posts on the win32 hackers list,
current development code compiles and runs on Windows
now, albeit with a few magical incantations needed
along the way. There are still issues to resolve, but
work is proceeding rapidly.

Now, as to the timing of the next release, I don't
believe that anyone has made an estimate yet.

After lurking on the win32 hackers list for a while, I
am very impressed by the energy and capability of the
people who are doing the work. Anyone who wants to
test the development code, and report back on any new
issues encountered, would no doubt be doing the
developers a favour. Instructions for compiling on
Windows are on the project page on Bruce Momjian's
site. But I am feeling too lazy to look up the URL
right now ;-)

Am I right on this?

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Rick Gigger wrote:

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I believe
you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

Speaking of win32 port, do/will we need a win32 users list
(pgsql-win32)? MySQL has one. For now, I think such a list can assert to
the world that a native port exist (or will, very soon), plus as a help
forum for users who want to try building one (as the docs on building
the win32 port is nonexistant right now).

--
dave

I build one from CVS, and make some test, it seems pretty stable now,
(I've build serveral based on previous CVS source, but seems not so
sable)and put it here:

http://www.pgsqldb.org/pgsql20040327.rar

wish it helps. Use winrar to unpack it and read the README.txt before
use.

regards

Laser

Jeff Eckermann wrote:

According to recent posts on the win32 hackers list,
current development code compiles and runs on Windows
now, albeit with a few magical incantations needed
along the way. There are still issues to resolve, but
work is proceeding rapidly.

Now, as to the timing of the next release, I don't
believe that anyone has made an estimate yet.

After lurking on the win32 hackers list for a while, I
am very impressed by the energy and capability of the
people who are doing the work. Anyone who wants to
test the development code, and report back on any new
issues encountered, would no doubt be doing the
developers a favour. Instructions for compiling on
Windows are on the project page on Bruce Momjian's
site. But I am feeling too lazy to look up the URL
right now ;-)

http://momjian.postgresql.org/main/writings/pgsql/project

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

David Garamond wrote:

Rick Gigger wrote:

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I believe
you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

Speaking of win32 port, do/will we need a win32 users list
(pgsql-win32)? MySQL has one. For now, I think such a list can assert to
the world that a native port exist (or will, very soon), plus as a help
forum for users who want to try building one (as the docs on building
the win32 port is nonexistant right now).

Seems we use win32-devel until we release 7.5, and after that, we could
use a separate list, or use the existing ports list.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Bruce Momjian wrote:

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I believe
you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

Speaking of win32 port, do/will we need a win32 users list
(pgsql-win32)? MySQL has one. For now, I think such a list can assert to
the world that a native port exist (or will, very soon), plus as a help
forum for users who want to try building one (as the docs on building
the win32 port is nonexistant right now).

Seems we use win32-devel until we release 7.5, and after that, we could
use a separate list, or use the existing ports list.

I for one vote for win32 users having their own list as soon as
possible. I predict three things:

1) there will be *lots* of them coming to -general (instead of to -novice);
2) there will be a surge of novice-oriented and MySQL-related posts in
-general;
3) the other members of the -general list will get annoyed enough that
eventually a win32-users list is set up.

So why go through the pain of #1 and #2 when we can go directly to #3 :-)

Btw, here's a nice read as well as a reminder of things to come:
http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&amp;ixPost=26787

--
dave

David Garamond said:

Bruce Momjian wrote:

So can I quietly beg the Win32 group to expedite this port. I believe
you will be utterly astonished at the demand. Please.....

Speaking of win32 port, do/will we need a win32 users list
(pgsql-win32)? MySQL has one. For now, I think such a list can assert to
the world that a native port exist (or will, very soon), plus as a help
forum for users who want to try building one (as the docs on building
the win32 port is nonexistant right now).

Seems we use win32-devel until we release 7.5, and after that, we could
use a separate list, or use the existing ports list.

I for one vote for win32 users having their own list as soon as
possible. I predict three things:

1) there will be *lots* of them coming to -general (instead of to -novice);
2) there will be a surge of novice-oriented and MySQL-related posts in
-general;
3) the other members of the -general list will get annoyed enough that
eventually a win32-users list is set up.

So why go through the pain of #1 and #2 when we can go directly to #3 :-)

So this is supposed an intelligent, non-annoying post? Preemptive action to
insure the protection of the sane and intelligent from the ravages of the
ignorant masses. Yeah, uh-huh...right.

Best regards,

Jim

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:08:11 +0700 David Garamond <lists@zara.6.isreserved.com> sat down, thought
long and then wrote:

I for one vote for win32 users having their own list as soon as
possible. I predict three things:

1) there will be *lots* of them coming to -general (instead of to -novice);
2) there will be a surge of novice-oriented and MySQL-related posts in
-general;
3) the other members of the -general list will get annoyed enough that
eventually a win32-users list is set up.

So why go through the pain of #1 and #2 when we can go directly to #3 :-)

Btw, here's a nice read as well as a reminder of things to come:
http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&amp;ixPost=26787

--
dave

How about simply automatically discarding any posts with the character sequence M,Y,S,Q,L? :-)

I am really tired of another comparison between MySQL and PostgreSQL every day! If we need that,
let´s go and create a list "database comparisons" (or, if point 2 is true, let´s call it
"win32-users").

Regards, Frank.