Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.
Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project
information to an FTP directory so it can be reclaimed as needed.
--
Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us
SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project
information to an FTP directory so it can be reclaimed as needed.
I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help
in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really
matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP archive or not.
Kind Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
Thomas Hallgren <thomas@tada.se> writes:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.
I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help
in the process,
Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
their heads.
regards, tom lane
On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 09:31:18AM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.
Well, first you need to mark one as deprecated. Looking at both sites I
don't see anything indicating that either is to be preferred. You can
still sign up to both of them. How is one to know a migration is
expected?
Secondly, say I have a project to migrate, what next? Googling for
"gborg migration" doesn't bring up anything useful.
Have a nice day,
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog@svana.org> http://svana.org/kleptog/
Show quoted text
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Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
their heads.
Well that is not exactly true. We have been encouraging gborg projects
to move for at least a year.
What we haven't done is provided an easy means to do so.
But frankly after seeing, working on and with pgFoundry I don't think
pushing them there is a good choice either.
Documentation is very sparse, bugs are rampant and I don't want to even
consider
the possible security issues involved with it.
That being said, as an inclusive solution there really isn't anything else
out there :(
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
regards, tom lane
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Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
their heads.Well that is not exactly true. We have been encouraging gborg projects
to move for at least a year.What we haven't done is provided an easy means to do so.
But frankly after seeing, working on and with pgFoundry I don't think
pushing them there is a good choice either.Documentation is very sparse, bugs are rampant and I don't want to
even consider
the possible security issues involved with it.That being said, as an inclusive solution there really isn't anything
else
out there :(
I think that's overstating it a bit (even though I know you held back
;-) ). We have stomped on most of the significant bugs that have arisen
from our implementation, and gotten some fixes from upstream too. We do
have a couple of GForge devs who help us out. We have in fact been
pretty careful about security issues.
Frankly, what we need is someone with enough dedicated time and drive to
push the migration through. Ideally that would be someone who could work
fulltime for the several weeks I suspect a complete migration would
take. Unfortunately, I don't know of such a resource.
If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN
as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent
shape.
I'd rather move forwards than back.
cheers
andrew
Tom Lane wrote:
Thomas Hallgren <thomas@tada.se> writes:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help
in the process,Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
their heads.
If we don't push folks, nothing will happen, which is what has happened
for years now. Let's set a date and tell people to move, or else.
Keeping our stuff split like this is not helping us.
--
Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us
SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN
as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent
shape.I'd rather move forwards than back.
I don't care what direction we go, just kill one. We are at the
"dancing bear" stage with this thing, like we were with the web site
redesign:
[ old posting ]
We have been talking about a new web page layout for years at this
point. I almost don't care if they just put a dancing bear up on the
web site. Let's do something!What's wrong with the existing one? Have you designed the dancing bear
you'd like us to put up in place of what we have now?Looking around now. Perhaps a dancing elephant. WARNING: This will
make you ill:http://janetskiles.com/ART/greeting/greet-ani/dancing-elephant.jpg
That URL is priceless, and perhaps instead of shutting down the old
server, we should just put this up on there to shame people into moving.
Anyway, it is time to do something, and doing "anything" is starting to
look good. I think I even have some stuff on gborg and would move it if
there was a push to do that, so I know from experience that a deadline
is what it is going to take.
--
Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us
SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when andrew@dunslane.net (Andrew Dunstan) would write:
If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available,
SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in
excellent shape.
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...
--
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well enough to be called an expert and who hadn't written a negative
article about Microsoft." -- Robert X. Cringely
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, pgman@candle.pha.pa.us (Bruce Momjian) wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
Thomas Hallgren <thomas@tada.se> writes:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help
in the process,Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
their heads.If we don't push folks, nothing will happen, which is what has happened
for years now. Let's set a date and tell people to move, or else.
Keeping our stuff split like this is not helping us.
Be sure there's a carrot as well as the stick...
pgFoundry does generally look more featureful, which is a good thing.
A choice of CVS and SVN would be a bigger carrot...
--
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Christopher Browne wrote:
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when andrew@dunslane.net (Andrew Dunstan) would write:
If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available,
SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in
excellent shape.Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...
SVN is actually on pgFoundry and Apache is ready to allow webdav
connections. What doesn't work is the integration with pgFoundry/Gforge.
Joshua D. Drake
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Christopher Browne wrote:
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when andrew@dunslane.net (Andrew Dunstan) would write:
If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available,
SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in
excellent shape.Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...
This is not "get everything everyone wants before shutting down a site"
time. We should move to one site, and if the new site is not to
someone's liking, there is always sourceforge and other hosting sites.
--
Bruce Momjian http://candle.pha.pa.us
SRA OSS, Inc. http://www.sraoss.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
This is not "get everything everyone wants before shutting down a site"
time. We should move to one site, and if the new site is not to
someone's liking, there is always sourceforge and other hosting sites.
I do agree with Bruce here but... we need to make sure that
we give everyone their data. If Gborg does CVS like Gforge
we may have a problem in that there is only one cvs repository.
Joshua D. Drake
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Bruce Momjian wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
Thomas Hallgren <thomas@tada.se> writes:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help
in the process,Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg
projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to
their heads.If we don't push folks, nothing will happen, which is what has happened
for years now. Let's set a date and tell people to move, or else.
Keeping our stuff split like this is not helping us.
Slowly disabling things is also an option to encourage people to move,
while not ending up with a huge number of projects trying to move in the
same week.
Disabling the ability to create new accounts and projects will tell both
existing and new people that this is not the place to be going forward.
If you need a new developer or project, you need to put in the effort
to move your project.
Disabling the ability to upload files will make people create a project
on PgFoundry when they make a new releases, putting more pressure on to
move across.
Even with the above two items changed, it would soon encourage people to
move, or at least create a project on PgFoundry and move there file
releases there. CVS and mailing lists will need to be moved by admins,
but that process doesn't need to be done in a single day. It creates
more operational overhead for each project in the short term, but that
will continue to push them to migrate.
Who are the people who can help move projects across and how can they be
contacted? Maybe posting some news items on gborg about it would
encourage people. Having the people who can help available to assist
people to move will mean that more projects are likely too.
I agree dates need to be made, not necessarily about the total shutdown,
but feature removal dates will mean people are much more likely to
"want" to move.
Regards
Russell Smith
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Christopher Browne wrote:
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when andrew@dunslane.net (Andrew Dunstan) would write:
If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with
PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available,
SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in
excellent shape.Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...
SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting pgFoundry to
use it got stalled somewhere along the way ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting
pgFoundry to use it got stalled somewhere along the way ...
Yes.. I called no joy after finding a complete lack of documentation on
integrating it. See the archives :)
Joshua D. Drake
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services
(http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ:
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On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting pgFoundry to
use it got stalled somewhere along the way ...Yes.. I called no joy after finding a complete lack of documentation on
integrating it. See the archives :)
Ya, I know ... just wasn't pointing any fingers >:)
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we
have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so
let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off.Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project
information to an FTP directory so it can be reclaimed as needed.I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and
offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the
mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut
down without that happening. FTP archive or not.
gBorg won't be just shut down until its ready to happen, don't worry about
that ... I've sent you a private email about migration, and will follow
up with you as soon as I've been able to look into the database migration
aspect ...
----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, jd@commandprompt.com ("Joshua D. Drake") transmitted:
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a
lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN.
*That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one
project...SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting
pgFoundry to use it got stalled somewhere along the way ...Yes.. I called no joy after finding a complete lack of documentation
on integrating it. See the archives :)
Ah, fair enough. It probably makes sense to start arguing again about
what to do about pgFoundry on the Slony-I list...
I have some time again to get on with some Slony-I work after things
had gotten a bit nuts in other areas, between a new TLD grabbing all
my time, and then the personal matter of my father undergoing (happily
successful) cancer surgery. I think I had a client connect to the IRC
channel for about a week and a bit of not being around to watch it
:-(.
Anyway, it probably makes some sense to move Slony-I over some time
soon.
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specification is always a powerful selling technique to the clueless."
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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to
pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS
repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be
fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP
archive or not.gBorg won't be just shut down until its ready to happen, don't worry
about that ... I've sent you a private email about migration, and will
follow up with you as soon as I've been able to look into the database
migration aspect ...
I'm happy with that, as long as everyone understands that:
- Migrating my CVS and mailing-lists is not something I can do by myself
- My project is alive and would take a serious hit if the upload
functionality was disabled
- Being ridiculed by displaying dancing elephants on GBorg wouldn't
exactly be honoring my efforts
I could move everything all by myself I would have done so a long time
ago. Extra 'motivation' is not necessary.
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
