Lack of urgency in 8.3 reviewing
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".
Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.
It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Bruce Momjian wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.
We have *alot* of people (comparatively) who can assist in reviewing
code that are not committers. Even if they can not commit, they can help
insure that patches are in a state that can be more easily reviewed for
committers to actually test and apply.
Joshua D. Drake
Show quoted text
Bruce, where can I take a look at the patch list in order to find out
if I can be of some help?
Regards,
g.-
On 5/16/07, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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Guido Barosio
-----------------------
http://www.globant.com
guido.barosio@globant.com
It is all on the developer roadmap page:
http://momjian.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guido Barosio wrote:
Bruce, where can I take a look at the patch list in order to find out
if I can be of some help?Regards,
g.-On 5/16/07, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match--
Guido Barosio
-----------------------
http://www.globant.com
guido.barosio@globant.com
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Bruce Momjian wrote:
It is all on the developer roadmap page:
There is also a slightly more readable one here:
http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php/Todo:PatchStatus
Joshua D. Drake
Show quoted text
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guido Barosio wrote:
Bruce, where can I take a look at the patch list in order to find out
if I can be of some help?Regards,
g.-On 5/16/07, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
match--
Guido Barosio
-----------------------
http://www.globant.com
guido.barosio@globant.com
Bruce Momjian wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.
I at least feel uncomfortable about reviewing code that deals with areas
I have not touched much, and where I feel the author probably knows a
lot more than me. The chance of my catching errors/problems in such a
case is much lower.
Looking at the list on the wiki, that rules out most of the things that
don't have a reviewer already listed. I can look at the following items:
. UTF8 text matching performance improvements
. concurrent psql
. PL/PSM
If Tom gets around to per-function search paths I'll look at that too,
but I don't actually recall seeing a patch for that.
cheers
andrew
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.I at least feel uncomfortable about reviewing code that deals with areas
I have not touched much, and where I feel the author probably knows a
lot more than me. The chance of my catching errors/problems in such a
case is much lower.
Yep, that is part of our problem, but even items people have already
said they _can_ review have shown little progress.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
It is all on the developer roadmap page:
There is also a slightly more readable one here:
note that http://momjian.us/cgi-bin/pgpatches contains a link to the
wiki site at the very top ;-)
Stefan
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.I at least feel uncomfortable about reviewing code that deals with areas
I have not touched much, and where I feel the author probably knows a
lot more than me. The chance of my catching errors/problems in such a
case is much lower.Looking at the list on the wiki, that rules out most of the things that
don't have a reviewer already listed. I can look at the following items:. UTF8 text matching performance improvements
. concurrent psql
. PL/PSM
added your name to the list in the wiki
If Tom gets around to per-function search paths I'll look at that too,
but I don't actually recall seeing a patch for that.
no - tom said in is patch triage mail that this code is not even written
yet but he still wants to see it in 8.3 ...
Stefan
What about a mentoring schema in order to push up the gap that
represents catching up with cases like the one Andrew posted?
By the way, being a patch reviewer doesn't represents also to be able
to find out potential problems in the code, which may have nothing to
do with the patch functionality?
g.-
On 5/16/07, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
Andrew Dunstan wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.I at least feel uncomfortable about reviewing code that deals with areas
I have not touched much, and where I feel the author probably knows a
lot more than me. The chance of my catching errors/problems in such a
case is much lower.Yep, that is part of our problem, but even items people have already
said they _can_ review have shown little progress.--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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--
Guido Barosio
-----------------------
http://www.globant.com
guido.barosio@globant.com
I think one of the things that is preventing urgency is that everyone
knows we have large patches unapplied, so they know that their lack of
activity is not holding up the release. Any way around that?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
bruce wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Import Notes
Reply to msg id not found: | Resolved by subject fallback
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
- --On Wednesday, May 16, 2007 20:09:44 -0400 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
wrote:
I think one of the things that is preventing urgency is that everyone
knows we have large patches unapplied, so they know that their lack of
activity is not holding up the release. Any way around that?
Set a fixed date (ie. 3 weeks) and whatever isn't in gets punted to 8.4 ... if
that means those 'large patches' don't get applied, so be it ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
bruce wrote:
In talking to people who are assigned to review patches or could review
patches, I often get the reply, "Oh, yea, I need to do that".Folks, we are six weeks into feature freeze and have made slim progress
on getting patches reviewed and applied. As I stated earlier, we are
now looking at August/September for beta, but that might be pushed back
even later if we don't get more progress.It seems there is a lot of reliance on Tom to get the patches applied,
but I don't think that is fair or reasonable. I think we need more
urgency on the part of everyone to make faster progress. Patch
reviewers and committers need to take more initiative to get things done
rather than wait for some external force to prompt them.--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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On 5/16/07, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
Set a fixed date (ie. 3 weeks) and whatever isn't in gets punted to 8.4 ... if
that means those 'large patches' don't get applied, so be it ...
I disagree with that approach. Larger more complex patches required
much more work and effort than small, simple ones. Not only do I
think it's unfair to the authors who spent considerably more time on
their work, but I think it also sets a bad precedent for future work;
saying, in short, that if you want to make large strides to improve
PostgreSQL, and you followed the community development process, you're
still potentially last in line for review.
--
Jonah H. Harris, Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324
EnterpriseDB Corporation | fax: 732.331.1301
33 Wood Ave S, 3rd Floor | jharris@enterprisedb.com
Iselin, New Jersey 08830 | http://www.enterprisedb.com/
Jonah H. Harris wrote:
On 5/16/07, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
Set a fixed date (ie. 3 weeks) and whatever isn't in gets punted to 8.4 ... if
that means those 'large patches' don't get applied, so be it ...I disagree with that approach. Larger more complex patches required
much more work and effort than small, simple ones. Not only do I
think it's unfair to the authors who spent considerably more time on
their work, but I think it also sets a bad precedent for future work;
saying, in short, that if you want to make large strides to improve
PostgreSQL, and you followed the community development process, you're
still potentially last in line for review.
Yep. We lose a lot of credibility if we did that.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
- --On Wednesday, May 16, 2007 21:04:27 -0400 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
wrote:
Jonah H. Harris wrote:
On 5/16/07, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
Set a fixed date (ie. 3 weeks) and whatever isn't in gets punted to 8.4
... if that means those 'large patches' don't get applied, so be it ...I disagree with that approach. Larger more complex patches required
much more work and effort than small, simple ones. Not only do I
think it's unfair to the authors who spent considerably more time on
their work, but I think it also sets a bad precedent for future work;
saying, in short, that if you want to make large strides to improve
PostgreSQL, and you followed the community development process, you're
still potentially last in line for review.Yep. We lose a lot of credibility if we did that.
So, we lose no credibility if we sit in feature freeze indefinitely, with no
direction, while we wait for reviewers to finish reviewing?
- ----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Jonah H. Harris wrote:
On 5/16/07, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
Set a fixed date (ie. 3 weeks) and whatever isn't in gets punted to 8.4
... if that means those 'large patches' don't get applied, so be it ...I disagree with that approach. Larger more complex patches required
much more work and effort than small, simple ones. Not only do I
think it's unfair to the authors who spent considerably more time on
their work, but I think it also sets a bad precedent for future work;
saying, in short, that if you want to make large strides to improve
PostgreSQL, and you followed the community development process, you're
still potentially last in line for review.Yep. We lose a lot of credibility if we did that.
So, we lose no credibility if we sit in feature freeze indefinitely, with no
direction, while we wait for reviewers to finish reviewing?
Well, if we stay indefinitely, then we have no release and we close up
the project. I think eventually we will release.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I disagree with that approach. Larger more complex patches required
much more work and effort than small, simple ones. Not only do I
think it's unfair to the authors who spent considerably more time on
their work, but I think it also sets a bad precedent for future work;
saying, in short, that if you want to make large strides to improve
PostgreSQL, and you followed the community development process, you're
still potentially last in line for review.Yep. We lose a lot of credibility if we did that.
So, we lose no credibility if we sit in feature freeze indefinitely, with no
direction, while we wait for reviewers to finish reviewing?
*cough* that is hardly what is happening. Just today we had two people
step up and commit to help reviewing. One of them is a committer (AndrewD).
I believe under no uncertain terms, that if we continual proactive
communication over the next several weeks that we will see a marked and
steady improvement to our existing status.
Let's keep this on earth shall we.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
--
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On 5/16/07, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
Yep, that is part of our problem, but even items people have already
said they _can_ review have shown little progress.
For complex patches, it might help to identify and associate a core/senior
community member in the early stages of design and development. This
member will then have enough insight into the work as it progresses and can
him/herself act as a committer and/or help the committer later.
We developed HOT in a phased manner. Had each of the incremental patches
been reviewed, I think the review process would have been much easier
and less painful. Also that would have helped us to identify any obvious
bugs/show stoppers early in the cycle and might have even generated better
ideas to do things differently.
Having said that, I fully understand the difficulties of the committers who
need to put substantial efforts in understanding the patch and guage its
overall impact.
Thanks,
Pavan
--
EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
--On Wednesday, May 16, 2007 20:09:44 -0400 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
wrote:I think one of the things that is preventing urgency is that everyone
knows we have large patches unapplied, so they know that their lack of
activity is not holding up the release. Any way around that?Set a fixed date (ie. 3 weeks) and whatever isn't in gets punted to 8.4 ... if
that means those 'large patches' don't get applied, so be it ...
Meaning we lose a bunch of potentially very cool features, and seriously
hack off the developers who put significant time and effort into them,
in some cases producing numerous updates based on ongoing discussion and
feedback over a number of months.
And then in 8.4 we have the same problem...
I think we just have to accept that we're gonna have a long feature
freeze period, and ask people to help review whatever they can.
Regards, Dave.
I want to help the reviewing work of "ctid chain following enhancement ".
I've been studying the souce code which related with that part recently.
:-)
2007/5/17, Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org>:
Show quoted text
I think we just have to accept that we're gonna have a long feature
freeze period, and ask people to help review whatever they can.Regards, Dave.
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