New email list for emergency communications
[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.
Therefore, I have created an email list on my machine that can be used
for communication in such situations. It is called:
pgsql-emergency@momjian.us
I envision this as an email list that will allow more rapid recovery
during email outages. I know many use IRC in such cases but this allows
notification. Also some don't use IRC.
Anyone can post to the email list. There is no moderation, though the
list sits behind my spam filters. The list will not be archived.
If you want to be subscribed, please email me privately. I think it is
particularly important for infrastructure managers to be subscribed to
this list.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.
Yes there is.
jabber.postgresql.org
irc.freenode.net
direct email
Not to mention how many other services people are using with buddy
lists? :P
Therefore, I have created an email list on my machine that can be used
for communication in such situations. It is called:pgsql-emergency@momjian.us
I envision this as an email list that will allow more rapid recovery
during email outages. I know many use IRC in such cases but this
allows notification. Also some don't use IRC.
Everyone in the know uses one of:
gtalk
yahoo
irc
jabber
If you want to be subscribed, please email me privately. I think it
is particularly important for infrastructure managers to be
subscribed to this list.
I would like the requirements defined by the -www and sysadmins teams.
I don't want us to go off and create yet more infrastructure without
full documentation and understanding of the purpose and whether it is
redundant.
This list is currently redundant as we have the resources and
technology already in place to deal with this. I think you are
attacking the wrong problem Bruce.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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Joshua D. Drake wrote:
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Hash: SHA1On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.Yes there is.
jabber.postgresql.org
irc.freenode.net
direct email
I think we need something more centralized, and with chat you have to
know to look there for problems. I think we need something that
allows people to notify us if there is a problem.
If you want to be subscribed, please email me privately. I think it
is particularly important for infrastructure managers to be
subscribed to this list.I would like the requirements defined by the -www and sysadmins teams.
I don't want us to go off and create yet more infrastructure without
full documentation and understanding of the purpose and whether it is
redundant.This list is currently redundant as we have the resources and
technology already in place to deal with this. I think you are
attacking the wrong problem Bruce.
Again, see above.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
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Hash: SHA1On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.Yes there is.
jabber.postgresql.org
irc.freenode.net
direct emailNot to mention how many other services people are using with buddy
lists? :PTherefore, I have created an email list on my machine that can be used
for communication in such situations. It is called:pgsql-emergency@momjian.us
I envision this as an email list that will allow more rapid recovery
during email outages. I know many use IRC in such cases but this
allows notification. Also some don't use IRC.Everyone in the know uses one of:
gtalk
yahoo
irc
jabberIf you want to be subscribed, please email me privately. I think it
is particularly important for infrastructure managers to be
subscribed to this list.I would like the requirements defined by the -www and sysadmins teams.
I don't want us to go off and create yet more infrastructure without
full documentation and understanding of the purpose and whether it is
redundant.This list is currently redundant as we have the resources and
technology already in place to deal with this. I think you are
attacking the wrong problem Bruce.
For how often it happens, its worth nothing: I agree 100% with Joshua
here, but, if Bruce wants to create a list on his personal domain (which,
in itself is a failure point as it requires that *his* domain is not 100%
perfect), it doesn't mean that anyone actually has to *use* it ... I know
I never will, since there already exist faster, more reliable, contact
methods ...
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On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
I think we need something more centralized, and with chat you have to
know to look there for problems. I think we need something that
allows people to notify us if there is a problem.
We are attacking the wrong problem. 99% of the time we know when
there is a problem. I leave the 1% only because we aren't perfect.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I would like the requirements defined by the -www and sysadmins teams.
I don't want us to go off and create yet more infrastructure without
full documentation and understanding of the purpose and whether it is
redundant.This list is currently redundant as we have the resources and
technology already in place to deal with this. I think you are
attacking the wrong problem Bruce.For how often it happens, its worth nothing: I agree 100% with Joshua
here, but, if Bruce wants to create a list on his personal domain (which,
in itself is a failure point as it requires that *his* domain is not 100%
perfect), it doesn't mean that anyone actually has to *use* it ... I know
I never will, since there already exist faster, more reliable, contact
methods ...
I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact (because
community email is down). The email list was a method to centralize
that. The list of possible contact methods listed confirms my point.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
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Hash: SHA1On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:I think we need something more centralized, and with chat you have to
know to look there for problems. I think we need something that
allows people to notify us if there is a problem.We are attacking the wrong problem. 99% of the time we know when
there is a problem. I leave the 1% only because we aren't perfect.
Well, I certainly don't until I realize I haven't received email, nor do
I know who is working on it. Right now the emergency communication
system is ad-hock.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact (because
community email is down). The email list was a method to centralize
that. The list of possible contact methods listed confirms my point.
Perhaps you should have a jabber.postgresql.org account?
--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact (because
community email is down). The email list was a method to centralize
that. The list of possible contact methods listed confirms my point.Perhaps you should have a jabber.postgresql.org account?
What does that do for me that my existing jabber account does not?
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
For how often it happens, its worth nothing: I agree 100% with
Joshua here, but, if Bruce wants to create a list on his personal
domain (which, in itself is a failure point as it requires that
*his* domain is not 100% perfect), it doesn't mean that anyone
actually has to *use* it ... I know I never will, since there
already exist faster, more reliable, contact methods ...I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact (because
community email is down). The email list was a method to centralize
that. The list of possible contact methods listed confirms my point.
This comes back to defining teams which is already being discussed in
another thread. The people that need to be contacted are the sysadmins
team but we need to know how. Right now, the only people that know how
to get a hold of the sysadmins team, is the sysadmins team :P.
As I said previously, we are attacking the wrong problem. The problem
is not detection (although it could be improved), the problem is not
communication (see my 99% remark).
The problem is one of complexity of environment and resources to manage
that environment. This is already being addressed on the sysadmins list
and I expect that it will be resolved within 2 weeks. Does that sound
about right Marc?
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:51:19 -0300
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:
Bruce Momjian wrote:
I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact
(because community email is down). The email list was a method to
centralize that. The list of possible contact methods listed
confirms my point.Perhaps you should have a jabber.postgresql.org account?
That seems reasonable.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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Joshua D. Drake wrote:
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Hash: SHA1On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:For how often it happens, its worth nothing: I agree 100% with
Joshua here, but, if Bruce wants to create a list on his personal
domain (which, in itself is a failure point as it requires that
*his* domain is not 100% perfect), it doesn't mean that anyone
actually has to *use* it ... I know I never will, since there
already exist faster, more reliable, contact methods ...I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact (because
community email is down). The email list was a method to centralize
that. The list of possible contact methods listed confirms my point.This comes back to defining teams which is already being discussed in
another thread. The people that need to be contacted are the sysadmins
team but we need to know how. Right now, the only people that know how
to get a hold of the sysadmins team, is the sysadmins team :P.
My big point is if the sysadmins team is hosted by the postgresql.org
domain, how do we communicate with them when postgresql.org email is
down?
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
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On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
Perhaps you should have a jabber.postgresql.org account?
What does that do for me that my existing jabber account does not?
Your jabber account can not talk to jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org when
there is a problem with archives. Marc should really be on it too but
besides you too, all of the sysadmins and -www team is already on it.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:54:38 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
This comes back to defining teams which is already being discussed
in another thread. The people that need to be contacted are the
sysadmins team but we need to know how. Right now, the only people
that know how to get a hold of the sysadmins team, is the sysadmins
team :P.My big point is if the sysadmins team is hosted by the postgresql.org
domain, how do we communicate with them when postgresql.org email is
down?
See point about jabber.
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
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Joshua D. Drake wrote:
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Hash: SHA1On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:52:25 -0400 (EDT)
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:Perhaps you should have a jabber.postgresql.org account?
What does that do for me that my existing jabber account does not?
Your jabber account can not talk to jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org when
there is a problem with archives. Marc should really be on it too but
besides you too, all of the sysadmins and -www team is already on it.
OK, sign me up (time for another Pidgin account).
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Bruce Momjian wrote:
[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.Therefore, I have created an email list on my machine that can be used
for communication in such situations. It is called:pgsql-emergency@momjian.us
I envision this as an email list that will allow more rapid recovery
during email outages. I know many use IRC in such cases but this allows
notification. Also some don't use IRC.Anyone can post to the email list. There is no moderation, though the
list sits behind my spam filters. The list will not be archived.If you want to be subscribed, please email me privately. I think it is
particularly important for infrastructure managers to be subscribed to
this list.
There is one for sysadmins already. Every email on sysadmins has "If the
PostgreSQL.org mailing lists are down, use the auxillary list
pgsysadmins@agliodbs.com "
I'm nto sure if that one is synced automatically though. Josh?
//Magnus
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.Therefore, I have created an email list on my machine that can be used
for communication in such situations. It is called:pgsql-emergency@momjian.us
Thanks Bruce, but we've had such a list for a couple of years already.
--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK Ltd: http://www.enterprisedb.com
PostgreSQL UK 2008 Conference: http://www.postgresql.org.uk
Bruce Momjian wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
I would like the requirements defined by the -www and sysadmins teams.
I don't want us to go off and create yet more infrastructure without
full documentation and understanding of the purpose and whether it is
redundant.This list is currently redundant as we have the resources and
technology already in place to deal with this. I think you are
attacking the wrong problem Bruce.For how often it happens, its worth nothing: I agree 100% with Joshua
here, but, if Bruce wants to create a list on his personal domain (which,
in itself is a failure point as it requires that *his* domain is not 100%
perfect), it doesn't mean that anyone actually has to *use* it ... I know
I never will, since there already exist faster, more reliable, contact
methods ...I think we need a more centralized contact system than we have now.
Personally when I don't get email I am unsure who to contact (because
community email is down). The email list was a method to centralize
that. The list of possible contact methods listed confirms my point.
the sysadmin team already maintains a list of emergency contacts
including external email, phone numbers, alternative contacts in
addition to the what we are usually using to communicate (IM,personal
email, the lists) - not sure if we need to duplicate that ...
Stefan
Dave Page wrote:
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
[ BCC to core.]
Right now we have no way to communicate as a group if our community
email infrastructure isn't working.Therefore, I have created an email list on my machine that can be used
for communication in such situations. It is called:pgsql-emergency@momjian.us
Thanks Bruce, but we've had such a list for a couple of years already.
Oh, I didn't know. Email list removed.
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 11:48:36AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
Well, I certainly don't until I realize I haven't received email, nor do
I know who is working on it. Right now the emergency communication
system is ad-hock.
So the solution you propose does not solve the problem you think you have
-- i.e. that in the event there is a failure, the community doesn't know it.
Would a health check system that updated web pages based on the monitor
status help? (Hint: I think the monitors are already in place. What we
need is some additional ways of accessing that data, I guess.)
A
