PGXN Development Project

This was just posted to announce. Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

I personally had no knowledge of this, which is fine, but don't expect
me to get excited about it, except to consider it a threat to a
community-lead extension site.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

David E. Wheeler wrote:

I'm pleased to announce the launch of the PGXN development project.

http://www.pgxn.org/

PGXN, the PostgreSQL Extension Network, is modelled on CPAN, the Perl community's archive of "all things Perl." PGXN will provide four major pieces of infrastructure to the PostgreSQL community:

* An upload and distribution infrastructure for extension developers
* A centralized index and API of distribution metadata
* A website for searching extensions and perusing their documentation
* A command-line client for downloading, testing, and installing extensions

We have started the fundraising phase of the project now. Thanks to founding sponsors myYearbook.com and PostgreSQL Experts, Inc., we're already 2/5 of the way to our goal. Complete details of the project -- including the specification, implementation plan, and fundraising FAQ -- are on the site.

Best,

David
PostgreSQL Experts, Inc.

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+ None of us is going to be here forever. +

On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:12 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

This was just posted to announce. Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

I personally had no knowledge of this, which is fine, but don't expect
me to get excited about it, except to consider it a threat to a
community-lead extension site.

This *is* for the community, Bruce. There was extensive discussion of my original proposal back in January:

http://www.mail-archive.com/pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org/msg143645.html

I welcome all contributions from the community. I want it to be a success for PostgreSQL. But note that it doesn't have to be started as a -hackers project (any more than pg_upgrade did). CPAN, for example, was created because Jarkko had an itch. He scratched it. I'm doing the same here.

Best,

David

Then you weren't paying attention at the devlopers' meeting. It's the
bottom item on
<http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PgCon_2010_Developer_Meeting#Development_Priorities_for_9.1&gt;

cheers

andrew

Bruce Momjian wrote:

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 16:12 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:

This was just posted to announce. Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

I personally had no knowledge of this, which is fine, but don't expect
me to get excited about it, except to consider it a threat to a
community-lead extension site.

There was a long discussion about this Bruce. On hackers. David even
sent out an RFC:

http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2010-01/msg00692.php

I, for one am +1 (although I do note a hint of PGX in PGXN :P).

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering

Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> writes:

This was just posted to announce. Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

The chapter of PGXN as announced here is to build a network of
extensions, the ones I'm working on for core. It's the next step. You
want the ability to easily install, drop, dump and restore extensions,
then you want some sources of them that you can trust and from where
it's easy to fetch and build. That's the "network".

We're also working on the grotty details about how to best work together
at the moment, the separation of work had been agreed on before PgCon
and confirmed in Ottawa.

Regards,
--
dim

On 6/15/10 1:12 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

This was just posted to announce. Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

It is possible for things to be community and not originate in the Core
Team, Bruce. Just because you personally are not involved doesn't
automatically make a project "enemy of the community".

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 01:25:33PM -0700, David E. Wheeler wrote:

On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:12 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

This was just posted to announce. Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

I personally had no knowledge of this, which is fine, but don't expect
me to get excited about it, except to consider it a threat to a
community-lead extension site.

This *is* for the community, Bruce. There was extensive discussion of my original proposal back in January:

http://www.mail-archive.com/pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org/msg143645.html

I welcome all contributions from the community. I want it to be a success for PostgreSQL. But note that it doesn't have to be started as a -hackers project (any more than pg_upgrade did). CPAN, for example, was created because Jarkko had an itch. He scratched it. I'm doing the same here.

One issue that will come up: this is clearly a more commercial
enterprise than Jarkko's CPAN (and the internet is a different place
than it was in 1995) You pushed money right to the front with this, so
that will lead to certain questions concerning ownership of what
arguably should be community resources: the IP of the aggregate index,
for example.

I'm a big believer in JFDI as well - just be aware that toes will get
stepped on, and require some bandages.

Ross
--
Ross Reedstrom, Ph.D. reedstrm@rice.edu
Systems Engineer & Admin, Research Scientist phone: 713-348-6166
The Connexions Project http://cnx.org fax: 713-348-3665
Rice University MS-375, Houston, TX 77005
GPG Key fingerprint = F023 82C8 9B0E 2CC6 0D8E F888 D3AE 810E 88F0 BEDE

I, for one am +1 (although I do note a hint of PGX in PGXN :P).

Yeah, we tried to come up with a name which didn't have "PGX" in it, for
obvious reasons. However, everything we could come up with (here and on
IRC) was very contrived. And "PGXN" does dovetail nicely with "PGXS",
which it utilizes.

I also hope to fundraise for Dimitri's work; if we could get both of
those projects completed in 2011, it would really change things for the
Postgres world, I think.

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

On Jun 15, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:

One issue that will come up: this is clearly a more commercial
enterprise than Jarkko's CPAN (and the internet is a different place
than it was in 1995) You pushed money right to the front with this, so
that will lead to certain questions concerning ownership of what
arguably should be community resources: the IP of the aggregate index,
for example.

I'm a big believer in JFDI as well - just be aware that toes will get
stepped on, and require some bandages.

I have bandages. And a machete. ;-P

Seriously, it's not commercial. I really want to do it and I can't really afford to do it in my meager spare time. Those with sore toes will be asked to wait and see.

Thanks,

David

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 14:16 -0700, David E. Wheeler wrote:

On Jun 15, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:

One issue that will come up: this is clearly a more commercial
enterprise than Jarkko's CPAN (and the internet is a different place
than it was in 1995) You pushed money right to the front with this, so
that will lead to certain questions concerning ownership of what
arguably should be community resources: the IP of the aggregate index,
for example.

I'm a big believer in JFDI as well - just be aware that toes will get
stepped on, and require some bandages.

I have bandages. And a machete. ;-P

Seriously, it's not commercial. I really want to do it and I can't really afford to do it in my meager spare time. Those with sore toes will be asked to wait and see.

To help alleviate some of the "commercial" fears, I would suggest an
entry in the FAQ for the project that states the following:

Where the source code will be hosted (for the project itself)
What license it will be released under

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

P.S. If you can monetize this, go for it.

--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering

On 6/15/10 2:06 PM, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:

You pushed money right to the front with this, so
that will lead to certain questions concerning ownership of what
arguably should be community resources: the IP of the aggregate index,
for example.

Oh, good point. We clearly need a FAQ item about that. Or two or
three. Working on it.

--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com

David E. Wheeler wrote:

On Jun 15, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote:

One issue that will come up: this is clearly a more commercial
enterprise than Jarkko's CPAN (and the internet is a different place
than it was in 1995) You pushed money right to the front with this, so
that will lead to certain questions concerning ownership of what
arguably should be community resources: the IP of the aggregate index,
for example.

I'm a big believer in JFDI as well - just be aware that toes will get
stepped on, and require some bandages.

I have bandages. And a machete. ;-P

Seriously, it's not commercial. I really want to do it and I can't
really afford to do it in my meager spare time. Those with sore toes
will be asked to wait and see.

I totaly agreed you need funding, and you are very well qualified to do
this, and it is a badly needed facility.

The problem I had is that the effort appeared to be "I am creating my
own sandbox, fund me" (particularly the FAQ), which is probably not what
you wanted to convey. I understand adjustments are being made and if
you can clarify how this is going to relate to the community in terms of
input, oversight, and management, it might be something the entire
community can get behind, and help fund.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ None of us is going to be here forever. +

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:

This was just posted to announce.  Seems the community now has to
compete with another extension-based infrastructure if we ever get
around to developing one of our own.

I personally had no knowledge of this, which is fine, but don't expect
me to get excited about it, except to consider it a threat to a
community-lead extension site.

I think this project is a great idea, and I think as a community we
ought to be behind it 100%.

However, I do wonder what happened to the original name, which IIRC
was PGAN. That seems easier to pronounce, remember, ...

--
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise Postgres Company

On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Robert Haas wrote:

I think this project is a great idea, and I think as a community we
ought to be behind it 100%.

However, I do wonder what happened to the original name, which IIRC
was PGAN. That seems easier to pronounce, remember, ...

I didn't care for it, personally. "Pee-Gan" sounds weird to my ear. I prefer "pee-gee-ex-en." But you can go for "pixin" or "pigskin" if you'd rather. ;-)

My bike shed is chartreuse,

David

On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:22 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I totaly agreed you need funding, and you are very well qualified to do
this, and it is a badly needed facility.

Thanks.

The problem I had is that the effort appeared to be "I am creating my
own sandbox, fund me" (particularly the FAQ), which is probably not what
you wanted to convey. I understand adjustments are being made and if
you can clarify how this is going to relate to the community in terms of
input, oversight, and management, it might be something the entire
community can get behind, and help fund.

Agreed. How's this?

http://pgxn.org/faq.html

h/t Josh Berkus.

Best,

David

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 03:42:59PM -0700, David E. Wheeler wrote:

On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:22 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I totaly agreed you need funding, and you are very well qualified to do
this, and it is a badly needed facility.

Thanks.

The problem I had is that the effort appeared to be "I am creating my
own sandbox, fund me" (particularly the FAQ), which is probably not what
you wanted to convey. I understand adjustments are being made and if
you can clarify how this is going to relate to the community in terms of
input, oversight, and management, it might be something the entire
community can get behind, and help fund.

Agreed. How's this?

http://pgxn.org/faq.html

+1 Excellent, actually.

Ross
--
Ross Reedstrom, Ph.D. reedstrm@rice.edu
Systems Engineer & Admin, Research Scientist phone: 713-348-6166
The Connexions Project http://cnx.org fax: 713-348-3665
Rice University MS-375, Houston, TX 77005
GPG Key fingerprint = F023 82C8 9B0E 2CC6 0D8E F888 D3AE 810E 88F0 BEDE

David E. Wheeler wrote:

On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:22 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:

I totaly agreed you need funding, and you are very well qualified to do
this, and it is a badly needed facility.

Thanks.

The problem I had is that the effort appeared to be "I am creating my
own sandbox, fund me" (particularly the FAQ), which is probably not what
you wanted to convey. I understand adjustments are being made and if
you can clarify how this is going to relate to the community in terms of
input, oversight, and management, it might be something the entire
community can get behind, and help fund.

Agreed. How's this?

http://pgxn.org/faq.html

That is something everyone can get behind! Great.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ None of us is going to be here forever. +

David E. Wheeler wrote:

On Jun 15, 2010, at 3:23 PM, Robert Haas wrote:

I think this project is a great idea, and I think as a community we
ought to be behind it 100%.

However, I do wonder what happened to the original name, which IIRC
was PGAN. That seems easier to pronounce, remember, ...

I didn't care for it, personally. "Pee-Gan" sounds weird to my ear. I prefer "pee-gee-ex-en." But you can go for "pixin" or "pigskin" if you'd rather. ;-)

My bike shed is chartreuse,

heh I'm with Robert on that PGXN just sounds and speels weird - PGAN was
much easier ;)

Stefan

On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 16:12 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:

This was just posted to announce.

I notice you mention that this was just posted to the ANNOUNCE list.

Who is it that moderates the announce list?

The postings made by David Fetter on 13 June and postings by David
Wheeler on 15 June were both approved within an hour of posting.

Critically important posting by Lacey Powers on Monday, approximately 40
hours early was held in the queue.

Also, an item by Koichi Suzuki was held in the queue since 8 June, and
also an item by myself was held in the queue since 11 June.

Why is there significant delay on important posts, yet some posts go
almost straight though? Every time I use Announce my posts are delayed
for about 4-5 days.

Why do some posts jump the queue, appearing to imply the moderator is
being selective in releasing some, yet not others?

Do we need some more moderators?

--
Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.com
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training and Services