Win32, PITR, nested transactions, tablespaces

Hi Bruce,

Is that core's decision that:

o below all four major features will be incorporated into 7.5
o beta freeze will be June 1

In the upcoming big event "Linux World" (in Tokyo, from June 2 to 4) I
need to present about current status of PostgreSQL development. Even
if cores have not decided yet, kind of information "it's likely
happen..." would be very valuable for the audience. Suggestion?
--
Tatsuo Ishii

From: Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
Subject: [HACKERS] Win32, PITR, nested transactions, tablespaces
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:31:57 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <200405272031.i4RKVvC13764@candle.pha.pa.us>

Nearing our June 1 feature freeze, we now have patches for all our major
outstanding features. Their status is:

Win32 - almost done, fsync needed, bug fixes, etc
PITR - Simon is away until Sunday and we are working on it
Nested transactions - patch needs review, trigger issues
Tablespaces - patch needs review

Congratulations to all the developers who finished up some very complex
patches. I realize the patches will need adjustments, but it is amazing
they all got done so quickly.

I should point out to interested testers that the tablespace patch is
the most mature out of the above list. It's basically finished.

Chris

Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Is that core's decision that:

o below all four major features will be incorporated into 7.5

We don't know. If they can be added to CVS without major changes, they
will be in 7.5. As far as I can tell:

Win32 has 98% of its code in CVS, so it will make it
Tablespaces - Christopher says it is ready, and has run tests
PITR - some functionality might be in 7.5, but we aren't sure
Nested transactions - Alvaro thinks it is close, but we don't know

o beta freeze will be June 1

Yes, I think so. That was Marc's decision actually.

In the upcoming big event "Linux World" (in Tokyo, from June 2 to 4) I
need to present about current status of PostgreSQL development. Even
if cores have not decided yet, kind of information "it's likely
happen..." would be very valuable for the audience. Suggestion?

I think some of them will make it, not sure about all.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

pgman@candle.pha.pa.us (Bruce Momjian) wrote:

Win32 has 98% of its code in CVS, so it will make it
Tablespaces - Christopher says it is ready, and has run tests
PITR - some functionality might be in 7.5, but we aren't sure
Nested transactions - Alvaro thinks it is close, but we don't know

Does this mean that 2PC is likely to be deferred? I believe that
integration work on that was awaiting having nested transactions in
the codebase...
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/emacs.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord #30. "All bumbling conjurers, clumsy
squires, no-talent bards, and cowardly thieves in the land will be
preemptively put to death. My foes will surely give up and abandon
their quest if they have no source of comic relief."
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/&gt;

Ok, BTW have we decided that next verison is marked as 7.5 or 8.0?
--
Tatsuo Ishii

Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Ok, BTW have we decided that next verison is marked as 7.5 or 8.0?

No. Some argue that an 8.0 should only be done if we break backward
compatibility, while others feel major features should cause an 8.0.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:

Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Ok, BTW have we decided that next verison is marked as 7.5 or 8.0?

No. Some argue that an 8.0 should only be done if we break backward
compatibility, while others feel major features should cause an 8.0.

In any case, it's premature to have that discussion until we know for
sure which of these features will make it into the release. (If they
all do, I think there'd be a case for calling it 8.0.)

regards, tom lane

Hi Bruce,

Is that core's decision that:

o below all four major features will be incorporated into 7.5

We don't know. If they can be added to CVS without major changes, they
will be in 7.5. As far as I can tell:

Win32 has 98% of its code in CVS, so it will make it
Tablespaces - Christopher says it is ready, and has run tests
PITR - some functionality might be in 7.5, but we aren't sure
Nested transactions - Alvaro thinks it is close, but we don't know

Today is May 28. So if nobody will not commit above within 3 days, non
of them will be in 7.5(8.0). Am I correct?
--
Tatsuo Ishii

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Is that core's decision that:

o below all four major features will be incorporated into 7.5

We don't know. If they can be added to CVS without major changes, they
will be in 7.5. As far as I can tell:

Win32 has 98% of its code in CVS, so it will make it
Tablespaces - Christopher says it is ready, and has run tests
PITR - some functionality might be in 7.5, but we aren't sure
Nested transactions - Alvaro thinks it is close, but we don't know

Today is May 28. So if nobody will not commit above within 3 days, non
of them will be in 7.5(8.0). Am I correct?

Not necessarily ... there are several Win32 related features that still
haven't been committed (that I've seen) that will push back the release,
and hopefully give some time for the other ones to get in ...

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager come to mind
... and Tom's fsync changes ...

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday (June
4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give the above
time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday (June
4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give the
above time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

Speaking of CVS, a CERT advisory was issued yesterday documenting a
vulnerability:

http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA04-147A.html

For what it's worth,

Mike Mascari

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Tatsuo Ishii wrote:

Hi Bruce,

Is that core's decision that:

o below all four major features will be incorporated into 7.5

We don't know. If they can be added to CVS without major changes,
they
will be in 7.5. As far as I can tell:

Win32 has 98% of its code in CVS, so it will make it
Tablespaces - Christopher says it is ready, and has run tests
PITR - some functionality might be in 7.5, but we aren't sure
Nested transactions - Alvaro thinks it is close, but we don't know

Today is May 28. So if nobody will not commit above within 3 days, non
of them will be in 7.5(8.0). Am I correct?

Not necessarily ... there are several Win32 related features that
still haven't been committed (that I've seen) that will push back the
release, and hopefully give some time for the other ones to get in ...

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager come to
mind ... and Tom's fsync changes ...

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday
(June 4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give
the above time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

The Installer is a pgFoundry project, and unaffected by feature freeze.
See http://pginstaller.projects.postgresql.org (Note: Magnus hasn't put
anything there yet, though.)

I certainly get the feeling that things are being rushed just a bit too
much, and think having a extra few days of breathing space makes sense.

cheers

andrew

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Andrew Dunstan wrote:

The Installer is a pgFoundry project, and unaffected by feature freeze.
See http://pginstaller.projects.postgresql.org (Note: Magnus hasn't put
anything there yet, though.)

'k, wasn't sure about that one ... but the SVC and fsync stuff is still
outstanding, and they are both backend commits ...

Bruce, do you have a full list of what is outstanding on the Win32 side,
or is it just those two?

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

I certainly get the feeling that things are being rushed just a bit too
much, and think having a extra few days of breathing space makes sense.

cheers

andrew

I have that feeling too, and I'm working still working on pg_autovacuum
integration which I was hoping to get in, so I would welcome a few more
days to a week.

Matthew

"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> writes:

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager come to mind
... and Tom's fsync changes ...

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday (June
4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give the above
time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

I intend to be done with fsync by Monday, but I won't have any time to
review these other patches until after that. So pushing feature freeze
back a week sounds like a good idea to me too. We need enough time to
make unhasty decisions about whether each of these features is ready
enough to go into 7.5 (or whatever we call it).

regards, tom lane

Tom Lane wrote:

"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> writes:

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager come to mind
... and Tom's fsync changes ...

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday (June
4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give the above
time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

I intend to be done with fsync by Monday, but I won't have any time to
review these other patches until after that. So pushing feature freeze
back a week sounds like a good idea to me too. We need enough time to
make unhasty decisions about whether each of these features is ready
enough to go into 7.5 (or whatever we call it).

Agreed, but I am concerned we are entering a period like we did with 7.3
where we delay things a week at a time rather than in one-month chunks.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073

Today is May 28. So if nobody will not commit above within 3

days, non

of them will be in 7.5(8.0). Am I correct?

Not necessarily ... there are several Win32 related features
that still
haven't been committed (that I've seen) that will push back
the release,
and hopefully give some time for the other ones to get in ...

Are you saying that the completion of the win32 port will be what
decides feature-freeze? When it's ready, it's out of time for other
parts?

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager
come to mind
... and Tom's fsync changes ...

As already said, installer is a pgfoundry project, like other installers
(and yes; I'll put something up there RSN. Almost ready).
The fsync changes is the big thing.

As for your other question, I beleive these are the only things we'd
classify as "addded features". There are a few known bugs (see Bruces
page http://momjian.postgresql.org/main/writings/pgsql/win32.html) as
well.

//Magnus

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Tom Lane wrote:

"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> writes:

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager come to mind
... and Tom's fsync changes ...

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday (June
4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give the above
time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

I intend to be done with fsync by Monday, but I won't have any time to
review these other patches until after that. So pushing feature freeze
back a week sounds like a good idea to me too. We need enough time to
make unhasty decisions about whether each of these features is ready
enough to go into 7.5 (or whatever we call it).

Agreed, but I am concerned we are entering a period like we did with 7.3
where we delay things a week at a time rather than in one-month chunks.

The *only* thing we are pushing back the beta for is so that the Win32
stuff can be completed ...

There is no reason why those working on the other features should be
slowing down as a result that they think they might not make it, since
even if they don't make it, it would be *really* nice to see the features
added at the start of the next dev cycle ...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Magnus Hagander wrote:

Today is May 28. So if nobody will not commit above within 3

days, non

of them will be in 7.5(8.0). Am I correct?

Not necessarily ... there are several Win32 related features
that still
haven't been committed (that I've seen) that will push back
the release,
and hopefully give some time for the other ones to get in ...

Are you saying that the completion of the win32 port will be what
decides feature-freeze? When it's ready, it's out of time for other
parts?

Yes ... the other features are important too, but right now, we are
falling behind on marketshare because we are without a native Windows port
... the other features keep us ahead of the pack, but we *need* the Win32
stuff to close off the gap that has been growing ...

As Jan has already mentioned, we have several big features already in 7.5
(ARC, bgwriter, etc), so it isn't as if 7.5 will revolve only around Win32
...

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Tom Lane wrote:

"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> writes:

Off the top of my head ... the Installer and Service Manager come to mind
... and Tom's fsync changes ...

Right now, I'd say feature freeze is looking more like next Friday (June
4th), and we're evaluate it then ... that should hopefully give the above
time to flesh out and get into CVS ...

I intend to be done with fsync by Monday, but I won't have any time to
review these other patches until after that. So pushing feature freeze
back a week sounds like a good idea to me too. We need enough time to
make unhasty decisions about whether each of these features is ready
enough to go into 7.5 (or whatever we call it).

Agreed, but I am concerned we are entering a period like we did with 7.3
where we delay things a week at a time rather than in one-month chunks.

The *only* thing we are pushing back the beta for is so that the Win32
stuff can be completed ...

There is no reason why those working on the other features should be
slowing down as a result that they think they might not make it, since
even if they don't make it, it would be *really* nice to see the features
added at the start of the next dev cycle ...

Reality check --- why should they keep going if the stuff if appication
is going to be months away, and these big features are going to change
CVS significanly anyway?

Let's be honest --- if they aren't going to make it, they will stop
working hard and do something else with their time.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
  +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
  +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073